NOTE: If you are amazed at the truth exposed in this post, then make sure you check the others at the top of my blog…NO FREE WILL, ALL MEN SAVED, SYMBOLIC BOOK OF REVELATION.
Based on Scripture, I will prove that All Evil is of God and that includes the death of loved ones, the torture or abuse of children, war, rape…. EVERYTHING is Of HIM and Scriptures Agree. According to the Bible, if it is the word of God, then ALL evil is OF God.
If one was to read my last post about free will and how everything is OF God, including “the steps of men”. You will notice how ALL those scriptures support what I am about to post about God. Proof, that All Evil is OF God.
Notice the word translated “evil” in Isaiah 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra. The Hebrew word for “calamity” is the Hebrew word ade which means “misfortune, misery, or ruin. Whereas the Hebrew word ra means “bad or evil.” It is the same word used for the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil [ra].” It was not the tree of the knowledge of “good and calamity.” Did Jacob really mean to say,“a calamitous beast” had devoured his son?(Gen. 37:33)? Did Israel really “do calamity in the sight of God” by worshipping Balaam, or did they do evil?(Jud. 3:7).
The Hebrew ra means “bad or evil” and it is used over four hundred times to represent bad or evil, not calamity.
Some have tried to show that Isa. 45:7 is speaking of “calamity” and not “evil.” Of the nineteen times that the word “calamity” appears in the Scriptures, it is never translated from the Hebrew Word ra, but usually is translated from the Hebrew word, ade.
“I create EVIL” (Isa. 45:7) Context? Look at these scriptures! What context is needed for someone saying “I CREATE EVIL”. Is this Scripture True or False? Did he create Evil like he stated or NOT? However, if “yet ALL is of God” Like God Claims, then that ALL includes Evil!
Out of God’s mouth “proceeds…EVIL” (Lam. 3:38).
“…an experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man…” (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Liter Old Testament).
“…I [God] will raise up EVIL against thee…” (II Sam. 12:11).
Who Raises Up Evil? God!
“…has not the Potter [God] the right… to make… one [vessel] for DISHONOR?” (Rom. 9:19-25). Context? Is it NOT clear what God has stated and does it not match all the other scriptures I have posted. Completely in context with all scripture! Evil is of God!
“I [God] created the waster to DESTROY” (Isa. 54:16). Context? Really? Is it not clear what he is saying? Did God create the Waster or NOT? True or False?
“The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL” (Prov. 16:4). Context? Again, either God made the wicked or he did NOT. Clearly, God believes he did. Clearly, Christians tell us God made EVERYTHING! But when you point out that EVERYTHING includes Evil, Wicked people that molest children, they immediately try to make excuses and twist scripture.
“…I [God] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great DESTRUCTION (Jer. 4:6). Who? Who will bring Evil? Is that the same being that Created Evil? My Goodness, it appears it is.
“…Hear, O earth: behold, I [God] will bring EVIL upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19). Who?….did he say GOD?
God told a “lying spirit” to “…go forth, and do so [lie]” (I Kings 22:22).
Is it a sin to lie? Seems Evil to me but I am sure we can get many excuses from those that believe Evil is not of God and Deny his word.
“He [God] turned their heart to HATE His people…” (Psalm 105:25).
Again, God (NOT the Free Will Of Men) Turned their hearts to HATE! This is yet another example of God doing what he said “Operating ALL in ALL”
“Behold I [God] frame EVIL against you…” (Jer. 18:11).
Who? Who Frames Evil? I can’t believe it, again, it said GOD!
“For God locks up all together in STUBBORNNESS [that’s an evil]…” (Rom. 11:32).
“O Lord, why have You MADE us TO ERR from your ways…” (Isa. 63:17).
Are you starting to see the CLEAR picture? It is pretty clear, isn’t it? Is it our FREE WILL that MADE us ERR in this Scripture? NO…it is the “Lord”.
“…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS…” (Josh. 23:15).
Who?….was that the Lord doing this ….AGAIN?
“…shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6). Is this not clear? Evil…um…like rape, molesting children, torture, murder….yes they are all evil and apparently the LORD has done it. The LORD takes responsibility for it in this very statement. That is rather profound!
“Yet He [God] is SCOURGING [severely beating] every son to whom He is receiving” (Heb. 12:5).
“What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL” (Job 2:10). Again, God seems to clarify that if evil happens, he has done it. Seems it is important so he repeated himself to make it CLEAR to everyone!
“Thus saith the Lord of hosts… go and SMITE Amalek… DESTROY… SLAY both man and woman, infant and suckling…” (I Sam. 15:2-3).
Did God tell someone to Smite, Destroy, Slay both man and women? Is it Evil to do such things? Well, In my Agnostic mind it is Evil.
“…God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe A LIE” (II Thes. 2:11).
God can send a Delusion to anyone as God said ALL things are possible with him. Some reason, ALL religious people think God doesn’t send a lie to them so they believe the things they preach. Apparently over 300 denominations of the Christian religion believe they are telling the truth yet they disagree. Millions reading the same words, disagree on the meaning. Someone is believing a lie. If an all powerful being Deceived you, you would NOT even know it unless he let you know it.
Do not forget God also stated:
“God is operating ALL in all” (I Cor. 12:6) Operate: To control the function!!! Again, God apparently takes credit for doing and causing EVERYTHING. Controlling men…the steps of men and more!! Context? Give me a break. Is God operating all in all or NOT? God apparently thinks he is and Christians apparently deny his word and tell him he is NOT. Excuses and hypocrisy are common with religion.
“Yet ALL is of God” (II Cor. 5:18)
“…Who works [‘operates’] ALL THINGS after the counsel of His own will” (Eph. 1:11).
“For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are ALL THINGS…” (Rom. 11:36).
“And ALL THINGS are of God…” (II Cor. 5:;18)
NOTICE: ALL would include EVIL and ALL things would include EVIL
Examples of evil:
Outside of murder by drowning of babies / infants in God’s mass flood. We have religious types telling us God will Torture billions with FIRE for Eternity. I would call the torturous drowning/Murder of Babies and the Unborn child in the womb of the mother rather Evil. Christians Call this God that performs these acts….wait…wait....MORAL? It is also apparently “moral” to torture billions for the horrible sin of not believing? Torture with fire for eternity? Sorry, Torture and Murder are never, NEVER moral, NEVER compassionate, NEVER merciful, NEVER loving, NEVER acceptable!!! Unless you are the religious leaders like Jim Jones the Christians or Hitler the Christian, or those that fly planes into buildings on 9/11. They apparently think it is Good!
In my Opinion, Torture and Murder are Evil. NOT MORAL
Isaiah 13:16 ;Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:18;Their bows will strike down the young men; they will have no mercy on infants nor will they look with compassion on children.
Hosea 9:16;”Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.”
Psalm 137:8-9;O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Hosea 13:16;… because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Lets add to the list:
EARTHQUAKES :
Earthquakes are mentioned in 17 verses of Scripture, and everyone one of them is FROM THE LORD:
“You shall be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake…” (Isa. 29:6).
“And, behold, there was a great earthquake for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven…” (Matt. 28:2). Etcetera,
After each category of evil that I will Scripturally prove comes from God, we need to ask ourselves, “Does God ‘allow’ all of these things, or does God create, cause, and bring these evils upon humanity?” God does not “allow” earthquakes, but rather He causes and brings earthquakes. I will give a second witness to each of these categories, although with some of these evils, there are hundreds of Scriptural examples.
FLOODS :
“And with the blast of Thy [God’s] nostrils the waters were gathered together [Heb: ‘piled up’], the floods stood upright as an heap [Heb: ‘mound, a wave’ as in the tsunami quake which caused a huge wave!], and the depths [Heb: ‘an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply), Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary] were congealed in the heart of the sea” (Exodus 15:8).
“And, Behold! I [GOD] even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, where in is the breath of life, from under heaven; and everything that is in the earth shall die” (Gen. 6:17).
PLAGUES AND DISEASE :
“Moreover He will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt, which you were afraid of and they shall cleave unto you. Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of the law, them will the Lord bring upon you, until you be destroyed” (Deut. 28:60-61)
“The LORD shall smite you with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue you until you perish” (Deut. 28:22).
POVERTY :
“The LORD makes poor…” (I Sam. 2:7).
“The rich and poor meet together: the Lord is the maker of all” (Prov. 22:2).
FAMINE :
“Moreover He [God] called for a famine upon the land: He broke the whole staff of bread” (Psalm 105:16).
“And I [God] will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from the land…” (Jer. 24:10).
AFFLICTIONS :
“…the Lord has testified against me, and the Almighty has afflicted [Heb: ‘to make good for nothing’] me” (Ruth 1:21).
“And the Lord rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them [Heb: ‘hurt and weakened’]” (II Kings 17:20).
THE SWORD :
“I [God] will consume them by the sword…” (Jer. 14:12).
“I [God] will scatter them also among the heathen, whom neither they nor their father have known: and I will send a sword after them, till I have consumed them” (Jer. 9:16).
WAR :
“The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is His name” (Ex. 15:3).
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse, and He that sat upon Him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war” (Rev. 19:11).
DESTRUCTION :
“Howl! Ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty” (Isa. 13:6).
“Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come” (Joel 1:15).
“PESTILENCE:
“And I will smite the inhabitants of this city, both man and beast: they shall DIE of a great pestilence” (Jer. 21:6).
“If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people…” (II Chron. 7:13).
HAIL :
“Behold, tomorrow about this time I will CAUSE it to rain a very grievous hail, such as has not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now” (Ex. 9:18).
“I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labors of your hands, yet ye turned not to me, saith the Lord” (Haggai 2:17).
ICE, COLD AND FROST :
“He casts forth His ice like morsels: who can stand before His cold?” (Psalm 147:17).
“He DESTROYED their vines with hail, and their sycamore trees with frost” (Psalm 78:47).
KILLING :
“And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless” (Ex. 22:24).
“To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven… a time to kill…” (Ecc. 3:1 & 3).
SLAUGHTER :
“And the Lord discomfited them before Israel; and slew them with a great slaughter…” (Joshua 10:10).
“For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and His fury upon all their armies: He has utterly destroyed them, he has delivered them to the slaughter” ( Isa. 34:2).
CALAMITY :
“I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy; I will show them the back, and not the face, in the day of their calamity” (Jer. 18:17).
“…and I will bring their calamity from all sides thereof, says the Lord” (Jer. 49:32).
WIND :
“You break the ships of Tarshish with an east wind…” (Psalm 48:7).
“Thus says the Lord; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon… a destroying wind” (Jer. 51:1).
GRIEF :
“You did say, Woe is me now! For the Lord has added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest” (Jer. 45:3).
“But though He [God] cause grief, yet will He have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies” (Lam. 3:32).
FIRE :
“Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven” (Gen. 19:24).
“And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them” (Rev. 20:9).
FOREST FIRES :
“…I will kindle a fire in the forest thereof, and it shall devour all things round about it” (Jer. 21:14).
“And say to the forest… I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee…” (Ezek. 20:47).
WILD BEASTS :
“I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate” (Lev. 26:22).
“They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust” (Deut. 32:24).
As I have stated, there are MANY more examples that can be provided. I believe the Case for All Evil being of God and even Done by God is supported with Scripture.
Face it, this God drowned BABIES and the yet to be born child in the womb of the mother in his flood for the sins of others. Some say the babies themselves sinned…yeah…a commenter on my blog told me the Babies sinned. Sorry, the MURDER of BABIES is EVIL!!! About as EVIL as it gets.
67 Comments
December 1, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Based on Scripture, I will prove that All Evil is of God and that includes the death of loved ones, the torture or abuse of children, war, rape….EVERYTHING is Of HIM and Scriptures Agree. According to the Bible, if it is the word of God, then ALL evil is OF God.
I ask you truelogic, what initially caused death according to the scriptures?
December 1, 2008 at 6:03 pm
“I create EVIL” (Isa. 45:7)
God brings prosperity and brings disaster. Meaning that he lets us go through the good and bad times in life to mold us into who he wants us to be. He allows it. Man is who turned and continues to turn away from God, subsequently bringing upon ourselves the due consequences of our own actions. Think that through logically…
December 1, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I think you know that answer, why ask me? However, even that which caused death is “of God” as all is according to “his will”. It is God (according to the bible) that created ALL things, to include evil. Man can not do evil if God didn’t create it. Man can NOT sin if God didn’t cause him to sin. Why else put the tree in the garden? Because according to scripture “God appointed a time for EVERY matter and EVERY event”…..that would include sin.
Notice, I have provided several scriptures to support my statements.
So, maybe you do not agree that “yet ALL is of God” but if you do not believe he planned it all, approved of it all, appointed it all according to HIS Will, then you can take it up with him. I didn’t write the book.
Peace
December 1, 2008 at 6:23 pm
God doesn’t just allow it, he controls it. “God OPERATES all in all”
Operate – to control the function. that doesn’t say he allows it, that says he controls it. “if evil happens, have I not done it?” if it happened, God caused it and did it. according to scripture.
yet all is of God. maybe you think it is not all of him but the bible doesn’t agree with you. so you give your opinion. show me a scripture that tells us that “not all is of god”. i didn’t find one and i can bet you will not either.
so what you claim contradicts the actual word. read my posts and you will see that it is all of god and that you can “do NOTHING but for the father”. read my example of the disciples and how they thought they had free will but jesus demonstrated they didn’t.
there is no way around it unless you just want to give opinion and run from the actual scripture.
now, if you think you have a scripture that contradicts, you must remember that god stated he does NOT contradict.
December 2, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I have had many christians tell me that evil is the absence of good. yet the bible doesn’t define it that way and the hebrew references do not describe it that way. therefore, we have shown again that these christians are making excuses for the fact that scripture clearly shows that evil is of God. i can prove that evil is of god based on “god’s word” and i can prove that god does evil based on “god’s word”. However, ….AGAIN, ….christians make a CLAIM that evil is the absence of Good and yet can NOT provide any evidence to back it up.
this is often the problem with religion. many claims are made and NONE of them are backed up with evidence. NONE OF THEM.
Just because it deals with God people seem to think they can give an opinion or make something up or claim something and we are all just supposed to accept it. however, it that logic was applied to any other things in life, it would be thought of as ridiculous!
crazy stuff
December 3, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I tell you this, I am a christian and even I know there is no free will. The only free will we have is to mess up in life. As I told you before I do not believe in the God that men created so I do not believe in the bible men created. Though some of its scriptures connect to the philosophy and theories I have come to understand, I think alot of it had been rewritten for so long that the writers started to put their own spin on them. What I am saying is that the bible is fill with many theories of its authors views but we are so desperate to believe in something and lazy as well to understand the real meaning of its author. I hope this make sense. Anyways good post.
December 3, 2008 at 7:57 pm
alexander, thanks again for your comments. yeah, your post does makes sense but i think most christians will not agree with you. the point of my first 4 posts is to show that the God most christians speak of is nothing like what is discussed inthe bible and most of them don’t even bother to understand the words they claim to follow.
December 4, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Hi, i respect what you are saying and all, but i had to give you my point of view.
If we came to earth, and their was no evil, there would be no point to living. We would live perfect lives, and then die. We wouldn’t learn any thing because 1) there would be no reason to(because we would be perfect) and 2) because there would be no experiences to learn from.
Yes it is sad when loved ones die, or when something tragic happens, but every thing happens for a reason. Maybe the reason someones dad died was because it was his time to go, he was ready to go to heaven and heavenly father needed him. Maybe his children or wife will benefit, grow, and learn from the incident. Maybe it will teach patience, love with the rest of your family, forgiveness, gratefulness, learning to except others, to not hate. There are so many good things that can be learned from a bad thing happening.
And i believe in life after death, endless times where we can be with our loved ones and learn and love them more. If you can be with them forever, isn’t a few years sacrifices being without them, worth the knowledge you would learn? I think it is.
I also believe that our free will is there. We are not forced to be perfect, but instead allowed o make our own decisions, whether they be bad or good ones. But the experience of making the decision and hopefully seeing the good and bad consequences of our actions, will lead us to make better decisions in the future.
Yes god did make some bad things happen. But he can see the big picture, he can see what the out come wof the bad things will be, and he knows what is best for us in the long run.
I truly believe that we are all here for a purpose, and that if we try to over come that bad things, and try to look to the good side, we will find that their are more good things in our lives, than bad. God is good.
Well thanks to reading what I had to say, and i hope you will consider it
~christian
December 5, 2008 at 3:32 am
thanks for your comment Christian: I understand your point and in some ways it makes sense…the logic and all. however, the problem is your claim of god is nothing more than a claim. and what you state is your opinion. no different than any other persons ability to make a claim about any kind or version of god. it doesn’t make it fact. there does not need to be evil in order to learn, that is just silly. we learn all the time without it involving evil. i think it would be great if there is no evil and everyone loved and took care of each other.
with your comment on free will. i understand we do have free will. i only point out that according to the bible, we do NOT. EVERYTHING is of him, to him and through him and according to his will. this is what the bible teaches and i can provide many more verses and stories that prove this as factual in scripture. so you just don’t agree with the bible in that case. i believe the world has much more good in it than evil and i think life is great. my point is only to explain that scripture doesn’t match what the christian church preaches about god.
peace to you
January 4, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Christians can only debate their church and belief system up to and until the debate starts pointing to the ideas that it may all be a scam. That scam will shut the profits down in the business of church. So debate is very intense but has very strict rules. The church today is mostly about making money.
I find these debates on this site very thought provoking and very interesting. True, you are debating outside the box threatening the big profits in the business of church, but by all means keep up the work your doing as more debate outside the box is very necessary. Thank you for standing up where most do not dare to stand.
http://tipggita32.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/memorable-quote/
January 4, 2009 at 5:19 pm
I agree. there is a church near my home that covers several acres of land and made of ALL brick. TV monitors all over the place. the lot is full of people driving nice expensive cars and wearing such nice clothes. like i stated, millions of kids die for the basic needs of clean water, a little food and medication. these hypocrites are happy to spend all their time, money and the gas to get to church each week. the electricity alone in those buildings would feed most kids. but these people are too ignorant to see it and like you said, it would cut into their own money. gotta pay for those 6,000 dollar doors on the new building…haha.
yeah, i do go outside the box and even off topic. i try to do that to hear all the excuses they will make. they make many of them. did you catch the last one where they prove “their” god by “proving” that there had to be a creator. yet they didn’t seem to think about the small part that if that were even accepted as proof, it would not only prove their god but would prove any god that we men have ever created in our minds. that is why i like to go off topic and get all the crazy excuses for why they believe their exact version of god is the real one. did you notice when we provide the actual definition of words like free will, evidence, facts, proof, cult, superstition, myth and so on that they don’t want to deal with what is the actual definition of words, they prefer to just make it up and pretend it means something else.
January 26, 2009 at 1:01 am
Hello,
In response to your discussion of free will, I would like to offer a thought. Christianity inherited from a parent or other influential person in ones life is not true Christianity. One must believe because they truly believe. I was raised in a Christian home, and inherited my belief from my family, it wasn’t until I was in my early 20’s and decided to investigate to determine the creed of my beliefs without influence that I truly discovered what I believe in. And while I am a Christ follower, my beliefs are different from my parents. Parents try to educate their children in what they believe is right, and yes, they tell children the specifics that they believe on heaven and hell, and it may scare them, which is wrong way to go about it. I am the father of four daughters, 2 are grown. I taught my older two daughters to drive, and I told them the reasons why they should obey the speed limits. I told them horror stories about wrecks I had seen where people were driving too fast, and that if they had just not been in such a hurry, their lives would have probably gone on. But in the end, our kids drive the way they want, one of my daughters scares me to death by her lead foot, but she has free will, to drive as she wants. She is grown up and married now, so she has to be responsible for her decisions (free will). Humans have free will, all the information is there for them, but in the end it is their decision. Look at you, you have all this information about Christ, yet you choose to be an agnostic, (free will).
I agree with you that religion itself is not a good thing. religion is not from God, or the bible, but is a man made thing. The true church is a bunch of people under a tree, or in a living room. religion obscures the true message of Christ. You are a very intelligent person, and you seek answers to lifes tough questions. I truly wish I could sit and talk with you, as I think you are an honest person also. But open your heart and mind and listen to what they have to tell you. your fate is tied to your belief. There is much evil in this world, unspeakable evil, but there is also much good, much love, many blessings. Not all Christians are blow hard, obnoxious, hypocritical people, many would give you their shirt if you needed it, and many would lay down their lives for you in a heartbeat. May God bless and keep you
JFT
January 26, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Of course I have free will. I do not believe i will be punished for believing anything I wish. those that do believe are lead to believe they will be tortured by fire if they don’t believe. they are also promised great rewards like eternal life if they do believe. every person that has been brainwashed will believe they have free will. they will claim it just like you.
so you see, no threat works on me as i do not believe in any of the various versions of god for which NONE of those that believe can prove with a shred of evidence. I do not believe in the claims made by christians for which they cannot provide a shred of evidence…like hell, and heaven and virgin birth and so on. You are required to believe and must believe or you will not go to heaven and you will be tortured. free will? just like the muslims think they have free will to believe in their god and they came to know their version of god like you did. free will? just like all the other religions that are taught from birth. if you are raised in a christian society, you will likely be a christian. just like all the other belief systems.
just like you stated, my “fate is tied to my belief”. not much free will in that statement. I must decide to believe or else. free will? absurd. yes, there is much evil in the world and it is God that created it and causes it and does it all according to HIS will. not your free will. God’s will…according to scripture. read my post on Scriptural proof of evil being of God near the top of my blog. fact is, god does it. “if evil happens, have I (god) not done it”? think about it.
funny how everyone makes the same claim as you but for a different god and each of them claim their god is real.
January 26, 2009 at 1:49 am
February 13, 2009 at 2:47 am
I have read your blogs and agree that God creates both good and evil. The Bible does not try to hide this and even goes out of its way to also explain why, which I hope you are also aware of since you seem well versed in what Scripture says. For example Isaiah 45 which I have pasted below.
I hope you will read all of it through rather than just the verse that states “I bring prosperity and create disaster”. You may see then from this Scripture that God does everything he can so that all people on the face of the earth may know that he alone is God who created them and desires to bring them into a relationship with them where he can bless them with his goodness – which ultimately brings eternal life.
He creates evil or calamity in the hope that all people would turn from THEIR OWN evil ways in living without him and humble themselves, turning to him in repentance to receive his salvation.
I know the reality of this in my own life but am quite aware that others will respond the opposite by further apposing God like an ant shaking their fist at a giant God who currently gives grace in this life but who one day will judge such people in a far worse way than we could ever ever imagine or experience in this lifetime.
ISA 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 6 so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. 8 “You heavens above, rain down righteousness; let the clouds shower it down. Let the earth open wide, let salvation spring up, let righteousness grow with it; I, the LORD, have created it.
ISA 45:9 “Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker, to him who is but a potsherd among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, `What are you making?’ Does your work say, `He has no hands’? 10 Woe to him who says to his father, `What have you begotten?’ or to his mother, `What have you brought to birth?’
ISA 45:11 “This is what the LORD says–the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?
ISA 45:12 It is I who made the earth and created mankind upon it. My own hands stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts.
ISA 45:13 I will raise up Cyrus* in my righteousness: I will make all his ways straight. He will rebuild my city and set my exiles free, but not for a price or reward, says the LORD Almighty.”
ISA 45:14 This is what the LORD says: “The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush, and those tall Sabeans–they will come over to you and will be yours; they will trudge behind you, coming over to you in chains. They will bow down before you and plead with you, saying, `Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other god.’” 15 Truly you are a God who hides himself, O God and Savior of Israel. ISA 45:16 All the makers of idols will be put to shame and disgraced; they will go off into disgrace together.
ISA 45:17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an everlasting salvation; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting.
ISA 45:18 For this is what the LORD says–he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited–he says: “I am the LORD, and there is no other.
ISA 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob’s descendants, `Seek me in vain.’ I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
ISA 45:20 “Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save.
ISA 45:21 Declare what is to be, present it–let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
ISA 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
ISA 45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
ISA 45:24 They will say of me, `In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.’” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame.
ISA 45:25 But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel (meaning also those from other nations who come to him by accepting his son Jesus who took THEIR sin/evil upon himself when he died on the cross on their behalf – a spiritual Israel) will be found righteous and will exult.
February 13, 2009 at 2:12 pm
You don’t seem to want to understand that it is God that does evil. “if evil happens, have I not done it?” “men’s steps are NOT of himself”. “god operates all in all” Operate means to CONTROL the function. “yet all is of God” a time appointed for EVERY matter and EVERY event. that includes evil ones as well.
don’t try to improperly use the word calamity when it is clearly intended to be evil. it is not the tree of knowledge of good and calamity.
it is your god that drowned babies in his flood and promises to torture billions. read the entire post on evil and find examples, scriptures, and logic to backup what i am stating. God is the potter and you are the clay. he molds you the way he wants you. if you do wicked, god molded you in that form. “i create the wicked for the evil day”. read the scripture…all of it
February 13, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I’m sorry but you must have missed my first line where I stated that I “agree that God creates both good and evil”. I have no argument with this at all. I only wanted to point out the reason why God creates good and evil and used the same scripture of Isaiah 45 that you used in your initial post.
In regards to another scripture you just mentioned which come from Genesis regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you need to read it all to understand a key point that you put forward as to free will.
GE 2:15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
If you are going to state as a fact that one thing written in scripture is correct, namely that God creates good and evil, you can’t be picky about choosing some parts and deny the rest.
It also clearly states in the same verse that “You are FREE to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but YOU MUST NOT eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”
The basic premise of having ‘a free will to choose’ is, that there must be something to choose from that is different, such as good or evil. This is the basis on which God created all human beings – not as robots who have no choice, but as unique individuals who will either choose to receive him or to reject him as their creator.
The greatest cop out used today by those who perpetrate evil is that they blame anyone and everyone else and refuse to accept responsibility for themselves.
The Bible certainly condemns such attitude and actions when it says in the book of Romans:
“RO 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
RO 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.”
Another important point to understand from all the scripture that you quoted in your initial post, is that no where does it state that God creates ALL evil. There is also a big difference between creating evil and being evil.
Humanity accepted evil when it listened to, who the Bible often relates to, as “the evil one” – regarding satan or the devil. That might be another point of contention with you that I’m not sure of?
Never the less, apart from that, there are countless scriptures throughout the Bible where God expresses his abhorrence towards evil and commands us to “purge ourselves from evil” and “Be holy for I am holy”. Inferring that obviously free choice must occur somewhere along the line.
Please understand that I am not trying to proove you wrong but rather to explain the other side of the coin which is also presented in the same scriptures you are using.
Regards
February 14, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Does a computer have free will? NO. But a computer can choose a number of program options based on the input provided. It is not free will. Just because adam and eve can choose from some options doesn’t mean they have any more free will than the computer. it was all planned, programmed to happen. God appointed a time fore EVERY event and EVERY matter. God planned the it all from the beginning. God knows exactly when and how things will happen. “yet all is of God”. You are no more free to choose than a computer is based on it’s input.
Jesus told the disciples they would deny him. they said, NO..impossible, we would never deny you. (they thought they had free will). Jesus said, yes, you will deny me. They repeated again and said, NO..we will never deny you my lord. What happened? they denied him. why? because it was planned and thus agrees rest of scripture. God is the beginning and the end. he created it all and planned it all. Jesus told others they could do NOTHING but for the father. Yet you claim to be able to do something that jesus couldn’t do? Jesus could do anything unless it was of the father and you can? Jesus told others they could do NOTHING but for the father. I guess he meant that only for certain people? aren’t you so special that you can do anything outside of the will of god and jesus couldn’t. you are more powerful than jesus? amazing. You are more powerful than anyone that jesus would want to claim could do nothing and of course it wouldn’t apply to you..haha.
IF EVIL happens, have I (GOD) NOT DONE it? What don’t you understand about it? “yet all is of god” what don’t you understand? God operates all in all…what don’t you understand about that statement? “men’s steps are not of himself”. if they are not of himself then how can he have free will? if god is the potter and you are the clay, i guess you can do anything and it is not god that molds you to how he wants.
so if you want to claim the scriptures you post some how give you powers that you don’t have. then you contradict other scriptures and to contradict other scriptures would be something that god stated he would punish. do not make his word contradict.
anyway, you have you view. your view is not nearly as objective as mine. this is what i use to help children learn and think critically.
you see, i am not threatened by torture in fire. i do not fear it, i do not expect rewards in heaven. i am not required to believe in order to get someone or avoid something. so you see, i provide a far more objective view. I can look at it critically, and honestly and determine what is or is not true. Christians don’t have that ability. they must believe, need to believe….or else something bad will happen.
February 15, 2009 at 3:29 am
Sadly you just don’t understand Scripture truelogic. The Pharisees knew scripture back to front and look how wrong they got it. Reading the bible does not mean you know God, and until he opens your eyes you will never understand anything about the true nature of him.
February 15, 2009 at 9:56 am
I am sorry that you can’t provide any evidence to support that you somehow understand scripture and I or others do not. It is always the problem with religious people. They NEVER provide evidence to support their claims. “Until he opens your eyes, you will never understand anything about the true nature of him”. Wow, that is so profound. Let us see if I can make a claim like that and also not need to provide any evidence to support such claim. Try this one: Until you learn the truth as I have, you will never be able to see how satan has clouded your judgment in order to follow a false God. Did you notice, I have no proof of anything i just stated and yet I can claim it is true. Just like you want to claim your statement in true. I guess God has opened your eyes like he opened the eyes of Ted Haggard. Ooops, yeah, Christians love to make all kinds of claims and it just happens we catch them on a daily basis doing exactly what Jesus wouldn’t do. Can you prove God opened your eyes? NO. Can you prove God didn’t send you a delusion or a lying spirit to make you believe what you believe? NO…because we all know the bible makes it clear that God sends lying spirits and if he sent one to you, YOU would NOT know it as God would do it PERFECTLY. Oh yeah, but you are special…right? You have a magic power that lets you sense when God sends a lying spirit….wow….we are all so amazed at the powers Christian have..haha. Superstitious people often believe many silly things. If you walk under a ladder, you will have bad luck or break a mirror. No proof, they just believe it.
It is also interesting to see so many “christians” or religious people claim to follow the same bible and yet they all get it different. over 300 denominations of the christian religion alone…seems none of you agree. yet ALL of you claim to know Gods word and intentions..haha. even when it contradicts what you say is the word or inspired word of god. isn’t that interesting. then all the other religions that follow the same word.
yeah, there were gods before jesus that were born to a virgins, even had a mother named mary and father named josephs. Wow…magic….someone needs to open their eyes to truth but until you can bread the cycle of mental abuse that has brainwashed you, you will never see the truth. Keep reading and learning and one day you will make the logical connections.
I was a a nice place to eat the other day and took my wife, her mother and a good friend. the place was pricey but it was nice to enjoy this worldly time together with my family and friends. a table next to me with 5 individual that appeared to be a family prayed to god before they ate. they thank him for the food they were about to eat. they were nicely dressed and i happen to see them arrive in a Rover…you know how much those go for…don’t you. This is a common site and not just some Christians. I could only think while they thanked God for all their food, clean water, place to sleep, they forgot to ask God…why do you give all this to us when we are so worldly and children a dying for lack of something as simple as clean water. oh..i love hypocrisy and i like to make examples of those people that claim to follow jesus and yet have no idea what jesus would do.
kind of like you. you have your computer and you are spending time blogging to me while a child dies. no, don’t sell your computer and give to the poor. no, don’t leave your job and take care of those dying children. Jesus wouldn’t…right? Jesus didn’t ask you to…right? of course, you read the word and make it fit what you want it to fit and don’t actually care what is stated. hypocrisy shines
February 15, 2009 at 10:34 am
I have done some research in an attempt to find a flaw in your logic regarding the evil created by God and like you stated, caused by him and instructed by him. You provided the scripture to support your point of view and you provide what would be evidence from the bible that God did such evil and finally you provided the logic to support it. You’ve got me. The more I think of it, the more your statements reveal truth that I had not wanted to see before. Not just your examples of evil but also the many other reasons you have provided against there being Gods. There is truly little argument after you explain it. I also enjoyed reading your post about all men being saved. As a mother, I need to rethink how I teach my child about morals. As you stated, I should not tell my child that God is good and moral and then have him discover or link the killing by God to being good and moral. I agree, when God flooded the earth, it did kill babies and it did cause abortion. These are all things I would teach my child as being very wrong and even evil. None of that should ever be associated to love or morals. Your blog has made a great impact on my life. Thanks!
February 15, 2009 at 7:00 pm
those that do research and are objective will see the truth. it appears you are seeing the truth. feels good, doesn’t it? I am glad my blog has had a good impact on you and hope you will share it with others. feel free to print the contents of my scriptural proof that evil is of god and make many copies. leave them behind in coffee shops and put them into books or magazines in large book stores. I leave them in teen mags and leave an email address for them to ask questions or give their thoughts. believe it or not, i get far more positive emails with kids wanting to now much more and wanting to know how to be honest and open about the subject with their parents. seems religious parents are too open..haha. i do get some hate mail from the loving christian parents.
i appreciate your comments….have a good one
February 15, 2009 at 10:30 pm
My reply is not a case for or against a ‘Christian God’ but for what is logical
I take it from the title of your post “Scriptural Proof that ALL EVIL is of God” and your argument against ‘God’ in your non free will to initiate this post, that God has made you to believe there is a God who is in total control of everything that happens in the world today both good and evil and he has also made you to believe in what the Bible says about him (even though it seems to me that if the ‘scripture’ Lynton quotes is true, you certainly have a bias view when you read it to prove your point without considering any other point of view).
I take it that from your lack of free will that ‘God’ made you turn on your computer and made you do this post, which is indicating, that he also made you to be hostile against him and that he made you to blame him for all the evil in the world. And therefore God made you to have no responsibility for anything of your own doing, or towards anyone or anything by what you may say or do.
This is certainly bad news for SusanMum who was hoping to teach her children anything, because according to you, her children are already programmed and Susan will never be able to influence them at all because they don’t have any choice in the matter.
You liken human life to a computer which has been programmed by someone (who has been programmed by God) to function (good), of which other people, who are also programmed by God, are trying to change the original function, through the spreading of viruses (evil). Sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it at the same time.
Your view is too complicated for me and is not only illogical but also irresponsible in its effort to take away all responsibility (which you don’t believe anyone has because they have no free will) from people for the evil they perpetrate, and it gives no hope for people like Susan who would like to think that she can influence her children for good and not evil.
February 16, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Like you stated in your comment, my view “is too complicated” for you. Very true. Let me see if i can help you understand this VERY simple concept.
If you believe in God and follow the word of the bible, then according to the bible, everything I stated would be fact. Evil is of God and yet all things are of God. If you believe in God and his word, then yes, you have no free will and you know it is clear in his word.
If you do not believe in God, like me, then you have free will as I do not believe in god i can no blame him, for anything. I can not hate him and can not attempt to say that it is God that is accountable and not me. God can not make me or SusanMom do anything because God is NOT real.
Yeah, you still don’t get it but not all are supposed to see the truth. Maybe one day you will.
You lie when attempt to imply that i make some effort to take away all responsibility from people that do evil. Fact is, in reality, if you kill someone, you are responsible. no one else and our laws punish evil people. don’t need a god for that.
however, if you are a christian and you commit a terrible crime, it is forgiven and it appears it is you that believe it is all washed away by the blood of a magical, invisible son of God that is actually God. it seems it is your religion that takes away accountability in more than one way. If hitler were to ask jesus into his heart just before he died, he is then forgiven for millions of deaths caused by him. wow. but at the same time, a child that decided to not believe in your god, will be tortured for eternity. so, no only does your god according to his word do all evil, he also forgives all evil so it appears it is your religion that takes away all accountability.
in my world, if you do wrong, you pay a price. Not in the christian world….
yeah, this is far too complicated for you.
based on the email that susanmom sent me, she clearly understands my statements and the logic. her children are clearly accountable for what they do wrong and should also be rewarded for those things they do which are good. she will no longer need to read the bible and confuse her child by saying, “if evil happens, have I (god) not done it?” and then try to explain to her kids that God didn’t do it..haha. she will no longer need to tell them that they can do bad things and if they accept jesus, they are washed clean. so in the end, they are never really punished as long as they say they believe. magic.
February 16, 2009 at 4:56 pm
I would guess the real problem Christians have is that it is their God and his “inspired” word that claims he is the reason for all evil, created evil, causes evil, creates wicked people to do evil and so on. I personally don’t make that claim as I do not believe God is real. I do not believe the saviors before jesus and that were born to virgins are real either. I believe Jesus is just a copy of them. Kind of like others had 12 followers, even a mother named mary and a father named joseph.
If you don’t like God creating evil or how his word says he does, then you should talk to him. If you don’t speak to him, don’t worry, I will not threaten to torture you in fire for eternity. You don’t have to believe what I state but i guess if you believe in god, you better believe it when he says evil is of him and he created it.
kind of sucks how your god wrote you into a corner
February 16, 2009 at 6:00 pm
What I am gathering from your answer to me, is that you DON’T believe in God and you DON’T believe in the christian bible even though you are arguing from it.
Could you please explain to me, most enlightened one, why you have obviously spent so much time studying what you don’t believe to prove something that you don’t believe exists, and then have the pompous gall to post something that in your mind doesn’t exist and then give yourself the name truelogic.
That has to be the purest form of hypocricy I have ever heard because you have just admitted you know ALL truth and yet you are arguing from something that isn’t real!
Maybe you should consider re-naming yourself as “truelydeluded” and stop having a go at other religions because you yourself are showing all the symptoms of a self-righteous member of the agnostic religion. That is, someone who has an over zealous belief in SOMETHING (somewhere in their mind) and on a mission to prove it.
You have proved from your post that you know EVERYTHING about NOTHING.
February 16, 2009 at 8:16 pm
You have gathered correctly. I do not believe in any of the Gods that men claim are true. There are many and like you, others claim with just as much conviction as you would for your God. Yet NONE of you have one shred of evidence to prove your version is true. Funny, people love to make extraordinary claims and yet not back them up with extraordinary evidence.
You expose your ability to not be able to think on your own and just follow what you are taught. Did you happen to think about why someone would spend time speaking of a God or Gods they do not believe in. Then you seem to attempt to try to imply that if I spend so much time on something I do not believe in then I therefore should have the pompous gall to call myself true logic. Again, you don’t appear to be much of a thinker but then again, most people that believe in Gods are followers.
Just because I do not believe in God wouldn’t mean it is not logical to prove he is not real. I see many creationist that do not believe in evolution but they spend lots of time attempting to prove it is wrong. Oh…you missed that simple little logic..didn’t you? We can list several reasons for speaking against religion or Gods. One, to tell a child that Buddha is real, is a LIE. So, to lie is wrong. Good reason to speak against it..wouldn’t you agree? Just like your God is a lie. I enjoy exposing lies that are often used to get people to do stupid things. Cool-aid anyone? What other reasons could there be? Oh…I remember there was a time when people that followed the Christian God would go around and accuse others of being witches and then torture them, kill them and then the church took over their property. Wow…lies, torture, murder in the name of the Christian God. Seems another good reason to speak against religion. Hey, remember that 9/11 event? seems it killed about 3,000 americans in the name of yet another God. So our “christian nation” lead by a christian president and put into office by christians decided we would go after a muslim nation (because God agreed with bush) and murder or cause the death of over 1 million muslims. LIes to go to war, and apparently the christian god agreed with it. Yeah, yet another good reason to speak out against a myth. hey, remember that Ted Haggard Guy that had so much intolerance and hate towards gays? yeah, he loved to preach against them in the name of God. Oh they hypocrisy and yet another good reason to speak against religions. I would say, Lies, Murder, torture, intolerance, hate and all in the name of God is a great reason to start speaking out and exposing religion for what it is. Even Hitler used God and claimed he was a christian and his nations was a christian nation and he was doing the work of God. delusional people often believe God is telling them what and how to do things or what they should believe and of course, no other gods..haha. Seems you don’t understand Logic or Hypocrisy.
Of course I do not know ALL truth. NO one does. that is just a fact. Of course you do not know your God is real or any other god is not real. FACT is we don’t know if there is any God. I wouldn’t be such a hypocrite to be here and claim something I have no evidence for. I can provide tons of evidence for not believing in your god and you can provide NONE to support Your version of God.
I have proven that I am not ignorant enough to go around and say my version of God is real and yet have not a shred of evidence for my god and not a shred of evidence to prove any other God is not real.
You seem to have a problem with your God apparently telling us that “if evil happens, have I not done it” and your god apparently telling us “i create evil” and your god providing pages of text that apparently clearly shows that he does do evil. and YOUR god apparently telling us he flooded the earth and caused the torturous murder of babies by drowning. yet you call it logic to praise him and call him moral and good. Sorry, in the real world…it is NEVER moral or good to torture or murder. you still think it is moral and logical when your god himself tells us to not murder….yeah, feeling kind of stupid…arent’ you.
February 16, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Don’t feel bad. Millions of people follow other Gods and don’t have any evidence to prove their version either. They also can’t disprove any of the other version. Just like you.
Why not try to do like Jesus did and Like Jesus asked instead of spending your time blogging. The computer you use and the home you live in and the worldly things you have could be used to save the life of several children that WILL die today for lack of clean water, food, medication, shelter and so on. You have so much faith in your God that you are not able to give up all and do for others because you KNOW he will NOT provide. Now that is Hypocrisy to its extreme.
Yeah, you will come back and claim God doesn’t want you to do that or some other lame excuse. Read your bible and it appears Jesus made it CLEAR about giving, what you should do if you want to follow him, that you shouldn’t save for the future or even worry for it but instead have faith and he will provide. But i guess you are too busy judging me and based on your statements, making alot of false judgments. typical religious type.
February 16, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I repeat to you which you obviously didn’t read when I first answered your post: “My reply is NOT a case for or against a ‘Christian God’ but for what is LOGICAL” So please don’t contribute any god’s to me in regards to this post.
You have no right to write about what you don’t know about by using material from other religions that you don’t even believe in. Why don’t you use your own material – or don’t you have any of your own to prove any point from.
Are you only intent in proving everyone else wrong by their own material without offering anything to proove what you think is right with your own material. It seems you have nothing to offer in this world, only to pull down.
I don’t know about creationist’s but they only have the right to prove that evolution is wrong if they do so by using their own material not others, like you are doing. As far as I know, and if they don’t they should, other religions (should) only proove or disproove their cause by their own material and not Plagiarise like you are doing.
So I’m interested in knowing what YOU know apart from everyone else’s material, as to “Why there is evil in this world?”
Please tell us how you can proove your belief, in your world, WITHOUT the use of other religious writings that you don’t believe are true.
We’re all interested to know ‘truelogic’ what is TRUE about where evil comes from. Have you got something to add to the ongoing world debate by thinking outside the religious box that you have been using?
February 16, 2009 at 10:26 pm
It is a free country and I have freedom of speech for which many died to protect. So, when you stop making false judgments regarding me, I may decide to NOT contribute god’s to you in this post. Do you believe in God? Do you believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God?
I have every right to write about anything I want. Again, many have died to protect my rights to write and speak freely. Sorry if you don’t like it but religious people and especially Christians hate when we expose their lies.
Again, you think you know me but you have no idea what it is to actually love and put others first. I happen to know this very well. But you are very welcome to continue to judge me however you want as again, you have that freedom given to you by others. Now, maybe you can tell the children I have feed, the families I have ensured are warm and many other things that I only want to pull down. I wouldn’t doubt that you feel those things are not good and you don’t have to do any of them.
If you want to claim what I use is someone else’s material, then feel free. Again, I couldn’t care less what you think or what you believe. I do my work to help the youth make their own decision based on facts. I give them volumes of evidence that would point to the Christian God and other Gods are NOT real. I ask them to think critically and try to provide any evidence in support of the Gods that their mother or father told them were true. Fact is, it is working well and many are spreading the word. Imagine, as teens in high school start discussing these things and then spreading it throughout their school. They have information they didn’t have before and they get to use it to develop their own ideas and of course, expect evidence when people make claims.
I can tell you why there is evil in this world but obviously you will just claim I will be using the material of others so why should I bother. I prefer you believe I use others material and pull people down.
Did I ever say I could prove my world? Get your finger out of your nose, you are damaging what few brain cells you appear to have remaining. Like I told you, it is a LIE to claim your God or any other God when you know it is not likely.
You should try to calm down and chill a bit. According to the bible it is God that created evil. The Christian God. He admits it in his apparent word. Yeah, we can’t prove he wrote or inspired it but that is the claim we make. Like the claim Jesus was his son, was born to a virgin, rose from the dead, was tortured and killed, healed people, magically fed people and turned water into wine…now, we make all those claims but can’t prove ONE of them …not even remotely. Yeah, Christian make other claims like there is a Satan, a hell, a hell fire, a eternity of torture, angels, spirits, holy ghost and much more…..yet again, NOT ONE shred of evidence to prove any of them…not even remotely.
I am not the one claiming to have proof for a God so if someone wants to make an extraordinary claim, they the ONUS of proof is on them. I am happy to provide tons of evidence for why your God (jesus crunch) is NOT a real god. I just listed many of the claims which people like you can not provide evidence as being evidence against your God. We have several Gods that came before Jesus and had the same basic story in place and Jesus comes around and wants to be original? Seems Jesus couldn’t use his own material…kind of like me. haha. Seems me and Jesus have lots in common. I helped feed poor and gave of my own time to do these things. I haven’t figured out how to fly to the mountain tops with the ultimate of evil to see his kingdom but maybe if tap my heals together it will come true. haha
February 16, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I liked how you wrote about my religion of being agnostic. The difference in my “religion” is that if you don’t believe my version, no one is going to torture you in a pit of fire of eternal torment. My “religion” never drowned babies in a great flood and or cause the abortion of children from the womb of the mother in that flood. Also, I will not promise you any special rewards to get you to believe in my version of “religion”. I will just be honest. No lies needed, no tricks or magic. Just the facts as we have them. Now that is moral
February 16, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Funny, a Christian telling me I have no right to write about what I don’t know about or using material from other religions. Christian are against rights unless it is the way they want it. James Baker, Ted Haggard, Jimmy Swaggart and many others seem to like to tell us what we can and can not do. Again, pure hypocrisy. Again, I see you here blogging with me while children die. Do you need the scriptures that direct you to sell your possession, have faith that god will provide. Did you not read about the life of your mythical Jesus? Apparently he put others first. Remember, do as jesus would do? I guess jesus would be blogging while babies die…like you. So you are doing like Jesus daddy, ignoring when children are being murdered. However, your god not only ignores it, but he watches it and hears the cries as he lets it happen. yeah, you call that god moral and good and you praise his name. Logical? Hypocrisy. enjoy your myth as I can promise you I do. Peace to you and hope you learn to love
February 16, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Truelogic, I believe most people can understand your position and your logical arguments have helped me greatly in my battle with belief. I think some are upset only because you are exposing something they need to believe. Like you stated, it is very difficult for them to mentally accept they have been living a lie. Many of them living it most of their lives. It was hard for me. I am thankful you helped me understand this and now I can free my children of something I struggled with most of my life. You are wise to focus on high school students and other kids. Give them that voice and the ability to question what they are told, by anyone. Keep up the good work.
February 17, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Susan, you are correct. most everyone understands what I am saying and it makes sense to the majority of them. i get so many emails from the pamphlets that i leave in book stores and coffee shops. i left another 80 plus in a book store last week and received emails from approximately 17 or more people with positive comments. i of course get the hate mail of love from some Christians or mostly the parents of kids that happen to read my pamphlets. if you get a chance to print a few, then please feel free to print them and leave them behind. we have to understand the mental gymnastics that take place in the minds of these people. being told all their life that god is good and love and then finding out that the evil things that happen are of God. when their family member dies of cancer in a long suffering process, it is god watching it happen, hearing the cries and god that actually “appointed a time for every matter and every event” and a time to die. it is hard for the mind of many to change what has been taught to them from birth at an impressional age or during great emotional crisis. imaging, living a lie all your life and then finding out about it. that is why i focus on teens as adults like yourself are not typically able to handle it. you are one of the exceptions.
when a religious person ask you to donate money to their cause….tell them to ask God and if they have faith, god will provide for them, they don’t need to take money from your family. really, if they have faith, they do not need to be out begging for money to keep their million dollars businesses going and their paster in a new car.
February 17, 2009 at 2:43 am
Well I wonder why I am not surprised at your non answer to my question. I must admit that it was a bit of a test question to see if you were really just a fraud, and you passed with flying colours. You really don’t have anything to offer at all, do you, except negativism.
I find that when people can’t give a logical reason for something and ignore a question they can’t answer, they revert to the last bastion available by laughing it off or mocking it and then state something like: “It is a free country and I have freedom of speech … I have every right to write about anything I want”
What a cop out!!
I am amused by your obsession to see everyone who opposes you as a christian. You seem to just ridicule other religions but you automatically assume that only christians answer your post to oppose you.
In Psychology training we were taught, and I have encountered, that when people obsessively oppose something, they have something to fear from it personally and will actively deny this fact many times over. In fact, they will go out of their way to express this like you are showing signs of in this post.
For example, I read an article that exposed a number of religious people in America who openly opposed adultery & pornography, not only to their members but also on tv, and they were later found to be doing exactly what they opposed most vehemently. Their opposition to this ‘evil’ was a natural instinct to cover up something that they were trying to hide inside, by speaking out against it. Very Interesting!
It seems from your initial post and ‘parrot like’ replies, that deep down, you are suppressing a real fear such as what you often speak of concerning (not) being ‘tortured in a pit of fire and eternal torment’. Your constant need to affirm your lack of fear is really only a natural human instinct of trying to deal with a deep down fear, by trying to convince yourself (and others) that you really don’t have this fear at all.
I’ve seen and heard of over zealous closed minded muslims, christians, buddhists, hindus and the like, and you rank right up there with them in fanaticism. In fact you are more religious than you would like to admit.
I guess you are therefore finding relief in expressing you concerns in this post. But I hope for your sake and for the others who are blindly going with you, that this obsession will not move to the next level of being obsessed with the evil you are trying to blame on someone else.
I hope you will be able to deal with your problem.
February 17, 2009 at 2:49 pm
One of us is clearly a fraud and clearly a hypocrite. I avoid answering the question? Kind of like you didn’t answer many of my questions? Oh, no, it doesn’t apply to you? I asked you some rather point blank questions and you avoid them and we have record of it on this blog. Of course, I provide good reason for not answering your question or taking your “test”. Haha. Yet you just avoid answering questions. Like, do you believe in Jesus Christ is the Son of God? Do you believe in any Gods?
You find that when people can’t give a logical answer for a question they revert to laughing or mocking….good one. Let me see, did you happen to provide a logical reason for any of the claims you Christians make? NOPE. Is that why you revert to mocking and false judgment?
I am amused by your obsession to keep making claims you can’t back up and then attempting to make judgments of me and yet you seem to get every one of them wrong. Now that is amusing.
In “Psychology training”…now that is funny. You “have encountered that when people obsessively oppose something they have something to fear from it”. Is that why you are so obsessed with me and keep coming to my blog. Notice, I don’t search to blog with you but you come here to leave your comments with me…on MY blog. Why do you fear me so much. I already told you if you don’t believe like me, I do not promise to torture your for eternity like the Christian God. I am harmless, for the most part. Why are you so obsessed with me? Why do you fear me? Are you are Christian and do you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God?
It seems based on your comments that you are obsessed with me, are a Christian and you are suppressing your fears that what I say is all true. It appears that you don’t like to accept that fact that when your God says “if evil happens, Have I not done it” that you know what I say is true and mentally, you can’t deal with it. I mean, God drowned babies, promises to burn the flesh of billions, stated that is evil happens he has done it, your all powerful god watched children being molested and hears the cries of them, their families and still lets it happen. Yeah, we call that VILE in my world. We call is sick, in my world of reality. I am sorry to see that you don’t find such things vile and the fact that you don’t speak out against drowning children, and a god that does nothing to stop the molesting or suffering of children is not shocking to me. This is what is called lying to oneself. Christians and other religious types do it daily. When people can lie to themselves, they can do almost anything to others. Sad, sad life.
I just hope you don’t become more obsessed with trying to make excuses for a God that does evil and you calling him good and moral and love. Clearly, you are obsessed with me and I was able to manipulate you and get you to return several times. Look in some of my other comments to others. Yes, I played you to get you to come back. No test needed, I played you and you continued to come back. Which is exactly what I have stated several other time and it is what I try to do. Oh…your poor free will.
now you rush back to reply to me..haha
February 17, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Someone doesn’t want to answer questions or expose the truth that they are obsessed with me. Run along a play now and let the adults discuss and expose your God so we can save the lives of many in the process. You can go out and make all your claims you can’t backup. Peace and Love
February 17, 2009 at 10:07 pm
trueblue seems ashamed of his God. Why would someone want to hide their faith? Maybe they know it is a myth and are so upset about finding out the truth they would rather take it all out on someone they are obsessed with? My psychology training has taught me..haha
February 17, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Trueblue is having internal conflicts and doesn’t seem to want to answer your questions or discuss the topic of the post, which is concerning evil of god. He/She seems more interested in you. Trueblue is projecting. He/She will not admit it but they continue to avoid your questions and always take the topic back to you personally.
I have become a regular reader of your blog and this post concerning evil is the one that actually caused me to rethink my position. I could find no argument against your statements when you took the time to provide scripture as evidence for your claim. Anyone that avoids this topic would obviously have an issue they are not dealing with in their religious belief.
February 17, 2009 at 3:23 pm
haha,,,don’t tell him about his internal conflicts. just let him continue and provide the rest of us with entertainment. we learn alot form the simple statements people make. i guess he never reads many of my posts or he would have seen that i have specifically stated that i put on an act to get people like him to react. it works most everytime. yet he said he kind of gave me a test. i guess he likes to test fictional characters. notice how he points the finger at me for so many things and yet they all apply to him. did you see he was ready to tell me that i didn’t answer his questions and therefore..blah..blah…blah. yet he didn’t want to apply those same comments to himself for not answers numerous questions I posed to him. oh….the hypocrisy but he told me i was a hypocrite when i have clearly stated i am playing him and have stated it long before he came along.
seems he is obsessed with me. maybe it is one of those coming out of the closet type of things he is dealing with.
February 17, 2009 at 3:50 pm
When I was a child and a young man, I believed in the Christian God. Of course I proclaimed that he was true and all others were false. No, I had not proof but in honesty, it just happened to be the God i was taught to believe in. I went to college and had a history class which had a focus on early civilizations. We started discussing the early Gods and my mind started to see things that has never been presented to me before. There were so many other gods before the creation of the Christian God. Then we discussed Gods that came before Jesus (16 of them) born to virgins. Then we started to discuss the lives of these Gods and WOW, Jesus was just a copy. I mean, when a God before Christ is visited by 3, followed by 12, born to a virgin and happens to have a mother named mary and a father named joseph….you get the point. We then studied the egyptian religions and guess what? The egyptian hell came long before the christian hell. The egyptians even had far more information on their hell than the christian.
so i started to read the bible and i was amazed at what i was finding when my mind was opened. the Christian God himself CREATED evil, CAUSED evil and of course his flood that murdered babies through drowning is clearly evil. his promise to torture billions of humans by burning their flesh is clearly evil. hitler killed millions and tortured some for short periods of time. the christian god promises to torture for an ETERNITY!!! clearly, far more evil than hitler.
then i started to think,,,,not only do we not have evidence for the christian god being real, we don’t have any evidence for the hundreds of claims made about this god or religion. it is all just made-up.
when people lie to themselves and others that their god is real, what stops them from lying about all the claims and making up new stuff? kind of like the mormons added an entire new book when jesus christ came to north america..haha. it is easy to believe because we believe the initial lie so why not keep going.
as you can see, the evidence against the christian god is far greater than evidence for their god. as a matter of fact, they have no evidence but we can go on for pages for why their god is not likely true.
February 17, 2009 at 5:36 pm
people like trueblue come around and make their comments, never providing evidence for their point of view and just making false claims like they do for their gods when they are not pretending they don’t believe in god. imagine, being a christian and then pretending you are not one..ahah. make sense? did you notice the evidence both logical and scriptural and historical that i have provided in support of my views. did you see any provided by trueblue? i didn’t. maybe i missed it…haha
February 17, 2009 at 5:15 pm
You have a strong grasp of scripture with a compelling point-of-view. This should be discussed more openly by all sides of the debate and although some may not agree, your post is very logical. I assume the only ones that would not agree with the logic are those that are not objective enough to discuss such issues openly. Religion has never been about open and honest communications. History demonstrates that the church has often attempted to hide information, burn it or forbid the discussion of anything that might counter their belief. Good post!
February 17, 2009 at 5:22 pm
i have had many people tell me i have a strong grasp of scripture. however, i think it is not so much a strong grasp as just common sense. we overlook these simple scriptures when we are taught to believe it just isn’t possible and god is only good. we dont’ want to admit it and our minds basically shut it out, ignore it. i personally think my post is logical but as you can read in here, the christians don’t agree and even tell me i have “no right” to write about such things. amazing, how they want to take away my rights of free speech. kind of like in the days of burning witches. check out trueblue’s comments. lots of judgments, lots of hypocrisy, lots of things wrong, accuses me of things for which he himself does..haha. ask him if he is a christian or if he believes in jesus christ. he seems to avoid those questions and yet accuses me of not answering him. like you stated, the church forbid the discussion of many things that countered their belief. seems like trueblue was making that attempt by telling me i had not write to discuss the things i do. and he is attempting to say he is not a christian yet not telling us he is not a christian. oh….the deceiving ways of some.
thanks for your post and support. like others, please feel free to link this blog post or print it and share with other. even if you just print one copy and leave it behind at some place you visit, it can help others. leave my email or your own and start a discussion with someone. mostly, try to get teens to think critically about religion. once they start discussing it with their friends, they will start to see the logic rather quickly. pretty interesting to watch
February 17, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Hello,
I was sent the link to your website by one of my dear friends. My friend told me that he read some of the articles on your website and now he questions his faith. He is questioning everything that he has believed in now.
I was wondering if you could, perhaps, send me more information about yourself. Who are you, what is your background, what kind of education have you had?? I would like to decide for myself if you are a reliable source or not. What seminary did you attend? and what is your degree in?
Thank you for your time.
in Christ
February 17, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Thanks for your comments and thank your friend for sending my link to you and I hope others. I don’t care so much about my link being shared but instead care more about some of the information being shared. You friend is wise to question his faith and is only going through the same process many of us have gone through. We are born agnostic or not believing. We are taught to believe and it takes us time to break that brainwashing and finally see reality/truth for what it really is. He is close to freedom and the feeling is rather wonderful.
Where do you want me to send information to you? What do you want to know about me? I would suggest you do not put so much faith in what seminary someone attended. Read the word for yourself. Lean the history for yourself. Think about it and make a decision. Read the post i have supplied on evil, on all men to be saved and on the book of revelations. then decide for yourself. don’t listen to me, i only give on opinion and encourage everyone to decide for themselves. however, your God will tell you that you better believe in him or else he will torture you. don’t worry, i would never do something of that nature to anyone, especially my child. think about it
February 17, 2009 at 10:27 pm
i recently taught trueblue that he should be doing something more than being obsessed with me. the time he spent on me was time he could be out there doing for others. i would also suggest you do the same. don’t worry about me, worry about yourself, and mostly worry about others…help them. all the time you waste on me is time you have not spent on others in need. make sense? that is what jesus would do
February 17, 2009 at 10:37 pm
I’ve been a Church of God member all my life of 45 years, and the last 15 years I have had so many questions rise up in my mind about what I was hearing from the pulpit which did not sync with what I was reading in the Bible.
And lo and behold out of nowhere I came across your website. And when I started reading and pondering the things you were saying, I kept saying to myself, “Yes, this answers one of my questions that I have pertaining to this,” and “Yes, that answers this question,” and on and on and on, and I am totally overwhelmed at the “new” information that I have gleaned from reading your articles.
It is just UNBELIEVABLE how much “in the dark” I have been all these years and then all of a sudden, without warning, I stumble on to your much desired information.
I told my husband tonight (who is a neurosurgeon) about your web-site, and he is in our family room reading one of your articles at this very minute.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, True, for sharing this information and getting it out to the public. I really enjoyed your posts on All Men Will Be Saved and how the Book of Revelation is NOT Literal.
February 17, 2009 at 10:47 pm
kim, thanks for the comments. i am sleepy tonight and will make this short. i can send you an email about how to read scripture. something i learned many years ago as i studied in a christian school. it is great that you can see the truth in what i am stating and yet not go on the attack of me personally. i will send you some other information as to why you are one of the few that get it and that can see the overall message. although i do not believe in god, it can all be made into something beautiful if one has an open mind and is able to see past what they have been taught to believe. i will tell you know that it is only a matter of time before you start seeing the truth that I now see. but it is something you will need to learn to accept and live through. life is rather wonderful and far more fulfilling if you don’t have to live a lie and you take accountability for ones own life. don’t take that statement in a negative way. peace
February 18, 2009 at 9:52 am
Hello Kim and good morning. I guess I am still sleepy. I plan to update some of the main topics i posted on my blog. Will add some information on the lie of hell fire and eternal torture that is preached by christians. They like to tell everyone of this story but they don’t actually know what it is actually stating. of course stolen from the egyptian religion and of course, all part of the myth. anyway, wanted to thank you for the post.
February 18, 2009 at 3:52 pm
True, thanks for your reply. I understand your point and I can’t deny that it is possible that I will follow the same path as you in an attempt to find truth. I no longer believe in the hell fire stories preached by the majority of Christians. No God of Father of love would torture his children and your post on the Book of Revelation has clarified my this belief. There is no literal torture, as you have explained. No literal burning of human flesh and what you have spelled out for all to see is absolutely amazing. I look forward to more of your posts around scripture and religion.
February 18, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Glad you are starting to find out some facts that are often hidden or lied about by many. I will put some new posts up around scripture when i get some time. i am just busy lately. take care
March 15, 2009 at 7:54 pm
You clearly have read scripture and thought about this for some time. I have to admit what you have presented makes sense and follows logic, thus Truelogic? From what you have posted I would have to say it is God that is more evil than Satan himself. I think it would be worth me reading your other posts. Thanks for providing some other views of God that I never thought of in my life.
March 16, 2009 at 5:08 pm
yes, i have read scripture and i hope i have provided a logical view of what is presented by a book that is far from logical.
March 15, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I am amazed at what you have exposed as actually coming from the bible. I didn’t even believe those scriptures you posted were true. Then I looked them up and was shocked to learn what you are stated is actually true!!! I still can’t get over it. Thanks for the enlightenment and please tell us more.
March 16, 2009 at 5:10 pm
dont’ be too amazed as it is rather simple to see the scripture and print it out for others to read. the problem is that most people do not see it becuase they do not want to see god in this light, even when scripture clearly has God creating evil and doing evil.
March 15, 2009 at 8:01 pm
I am not a religious person and therefore it is not hard for me to believe what you have posted. I am not surprised at what I have read because Christians always claim everything is of God so they must accept that this everything included evil. Yet we never see them thank their God for evil. Strange, isn’t it? You have provided the evidence to show that yes even the most evil of things is of God.
I really enjoyed your post on how all men would be saved and how the bible makes it rather clear. Great stuff!
March 16, 2009 at 5:11 pm
thanks for the comments. yes, they only want to give god credit for good things when in fact their god seems to think he does all things. the scriptures i provided make it clear and we can provide many more examples as additional “witness” to the word..haha
March 15, 2009 at 8:06 pm
You have pretty much exposed something the Christians are not going to like. I would guess they do everything within their power to ignore this post or make every excuse to claim their God isn’t the creator and doer of evil. You kind of exposed this as truth if they want to claim their God’s word is true. Interesting post. Hope you don’t mind if i share it with others?
March 16, 2009 at 5:12 pm
PLEASE feel free to share it with as many people as you can. we need to expose this god to the world and other gods. religion clearly causes wars and hate and intolerance. lets put an end to war, hate and intolerance by putting an end to religion.
March 15, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I have not thought of evil in such a way. Your logic appears to be solid on this one. Especially since you provide actual scriptures that support your statements. We need more people that are willing to expose this religious garbage. It really is a time for our world to change and stop pretending there is some magic invisible being that is going to torture us if we don’t believe in him. What kind of father would torture their child for not believing in them? What kind of father would torture a child for any reason? Religion really is for the weak minded and weak in spirit.
March 16, 2009 at 5:13 pm
yes, the evidence to support my point is almost endless from the bible and from the basic concept presented by the christian. they don’t actually seem to want to read the bible and accept what it says unless it agrees with their own personal views. crazy stuff.
March 15, 2009 at 8:24 pm
Awesome post! I love this stuff and can use it in school. We have a debate class where we talk about religion and religious issues. This is going to be great. I too plan to use your post and share it with the class and post it on my blog. Dater Lude
March 16, 2009 at 5:14 pm
please, please do use my post an share with everyone you can. print it and leave it in places you visit. take it to church and pass around a few copies or leave them behind in some of the rooms…mostly for teens. lets help our teens think critically and question what they are told
March 16, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Well folks, if you believe in God. Your God apparently believes that evil is of him. So you can deny it if you want but that would just be calling your God a liar. Which is impossible, because your God is not real. But you are all allowed to imagine anything you want, even if it contradicts what your God states, contradicts logic and common sense and even if you can’t provide a shred of evidence to prove any of what you claim with respect to your God. tough, isn’t it
October 3, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Dear truelogic, you are 100% right, you got the scriptures that are in the bible.I got more scriptures but you probably know them already.There are other scriptures which say it did not even comes to gods mind or he did not know what israel was going to do,others he has to go down to the earth and see what man was going to do and other scriptures he repented all together for making man and others he has no clue at all.I do not wave the bible around I read it and wore bibles out,I read aramaic versions greek versions and translating into english for example how does first of the sabbaths get translated into first day of the week but that is another subject.Going to the new testament your right and at the same time I do not know the answer but here it goes,in acts 2:23 it says the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God,you have taken by lawless hands,have crucified, and put to death.Acts 4:27-28,For truly against your holy servant jesus, whom you anointed,both Herod and Pontius pilate, with the gentiles and the people of israel,were gathered together to do whatever your hand and your purpose determined before to be done.I admit at this point in my life it is not the answers that I getit is the more unanswered questions that I have.What I get out of this subject by going by acts 2 and acts 4 is this Ptere seems to say we are responsible for what we do but at the same time it is gods plan how it works out I do not know but it seems like a paradox but it is a barrier I can not break at least your bringing this to peoples attention.I guess I accept Isaiah 55:8-9 just as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my thoughts higher than yours.Also jesus said many will come in his name claiming to represent him do not believe them.Well it seems most organisations get a 501-c3 license when the bible says jesus is the head of the church not the state that eliminates 95% of organisations Thanks for hearing me out.
October 3, 2009 at 9:34 pm
I am not a religious person but have studied the bible extensively in Christian College and as a younger lad in christian school I never really understood any of it and didn’t care. Not until later when i wanted to understand did I start reading it and using proper translations from greek and hebrew.
many christians tell us that we have free will but this is not really true, according to scripture. they tell us that Satan was a good angel and then fell, that he made a choice. this is also a lie. if you read scripture you will see god telling satan the exact reason he made satan. you can also get it from other scriptures like “I [God] created the waster to DESTROY” (Isa. 54:16). The waster is Satan. It would be impossible for a perfect being like God to create anything that is not perfect, even if he gave it free will (which he didn’t). God is perfect and thus man is doing exactly what he planned as he “planned everything from the beginning…including the ending”.
There are many, many, many christians and they all think they are going to heaven and claim the scripture telling us only the few will walk the straight and narrow path. this has nothing to do with going to heaven and being saved but this is what christians think. so there are many christians and how do they think the many will go…the opposite of what the scripture tells us about the FEW? Just silly wish thinking on their part based on lies they are told from birth.
read the book of Revelation chapter one verse one and notice that it was “Signified” …..i.e. put into symbols. read verse after verse and chapter after chapter and notice symbol after symbol. then when christians read the chapter on hell fire and the second death, they take it literal? crazy wish thinking again. some people actually get a good feeling out of this because they like to think they are special and are going to be treated special for believing what others don’t. not going to happen. ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED and EVERY TONGUE WILL confess. Christian really hate to find this truth and will deny it to the end. the fire that burns is a symbolic, all consuming fire of God that purifies all. Just like any father that had the power to purify their child so they could live together for eternity, this is what the God father discusses.
if you can see this, then you are one of the FEW and you will then notice what this “love” truly is of this God. What is true love? You should know and if you do then you will see the reasons for why the bible states what it does and why so many are lost as to what it states.
peace
i may not believe in the god’s of men but the bible does have a beautiful story to tell if people can see the message. not the message of hell or heaven or jesus death for all. there is much more that no christian ever sees.