We know that Christians make many claims for which they can not prove. Such claims are that their God is the real God, heaven, hell, hell fire, satan, demons, talking snake, angels, virgin birth, healing and so forth. Some go as far and use science to “prove” God. Yet their proof (if you want to accept it as proof which by definition is is not) would NOT prove their God. It would only “prove” ALL Gods. Ooops.
My point, if they can make claims without evidence to say they prove their God. Then I would guess this letter is equally valid proof that Jesus did have fun with little boys. It is interesting that the Church magically lost the document….isn’t it?
Mar Saba letter (I would encourage readers to research this more)
Discovery of the letter
The manuscript discovery was fairly small, consisting of three pages of Greek manuscript bound in as end-papers to another book, an edition of the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch. Morton Smith photographed the three pages of Greek manuscript, and returned the volume to its original place in the library.
First, it was a previously unknown letter written by Clement of Alexandria. Second, it was a secret letter to his disciple Theodore. The letter congratulates Theodore on silencing the Carpocratians, who were citing a libertine version of the Gospel of Mark. The bulk of the letter is spent acknowledging the fact that there is indeed a “secret Gospel of Mark,” but Clement’s version of Mark is not the version which the Carpocratians are using.
In particular, the letter quotes “Secret Mark” to the effect that Jesus had a practice of initiating his male followers into the “mystery of the Kingdom of Heaven.” But, also in particular, Clement insists that “Secret Mark” does not include the verbiage “naked male with naked male.”
Morton Smith published his findings in 1973 in two different books: one was a rigorously academic volume from Harvard entitled Clement of Alexandria and a Secret Gospel of Mark, while the second was a popular explanation entitled The Secret Gospel.
Morton Smith reported he found the manuscript in the Mar Saba monastery in 1958, photographed it carefully, and then left the book where he found it. He, cautiously, did not publish until 1973. When people asked him where the original manuscript was, he replied, “On the third floor of the library, where I found it.” Four scholars found the manuscript there and saw it.
Then the chief monk got involved, and transferred the book to the Patriarchal Library in Jerusalem. Supposedly, this was part of a project to move all the Mar Saba books to safer keeping. It was never completed. The librarian at the Patriarchal Library removed the manuscripts from the end-papers of the book where Smith had found it, and took more photographs. This was part of a plan, it was said at the time, to keep the books and the manuscripts in separate places. And this plan evidently was never completed. The current stance of the Greek Orthodox Church is that “they cannot find it.”
January 6, 2009 at 11:07 am
i am a homo i like raping men
January 6, 2009 at 11:09 am
oh…did jesus get you too?
January 6, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Ha, in all of the stuff you posted never once is there a reference to ’sex’. Further, the line about ‘naked man with naked man’ should read:
While Clement endorses these two passages as authentic to the secret gospel of Mark, he rejects as a Carpocratian corruption the words “naked man with naked man”. And in fact, in the supposed letter it states exactly: “After these words follows the text, “And James and John come to him,” and all that section. But “naked man with naked man,” and the other things about which you wrote, are not found.”
Plus, you leave out all references here that most consider this letter a hoax.
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/reviews/carlson_gospel_hoax.htm
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/art_secret.htm
http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2005/07/is-secret-gospel-of-mark-modern.html
http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Secret/secmark_home.html
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.music.dadl.ot/18527
You’re very good at making inflammatory statements Truelogic, not so good at making convincing inflammatory statements.
January 6, 2009 at 6:18 pm
sex is fun. thanks for your comments. really, we can look at the body of EVIDENCE and conclude that your God and Krishna and Zues and all the other God’s followed to day with all their “holy books” inspired by god are just a crock. that is the bottom line.
I still love how you religious types “prove” your god without taking into account what the true definition of evidence and facts are and then not realizing that even if we accept your “proof” it would only prove ALL gods.
then i love how you think you have free will when even the definition of free will makes it clear that if you believe, you don’t have it as your FATE depends on your belief.
yeah, i guess all the gods before your god and all the evidence against your god aren’t convincing to those that are already brainwashed to believe but it sure works for those with a stronger mind that is not concerned about magical fates.
January 6, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I would actually suggest that readers look at their own links and those that are provide by pro religious types. of course they would likely be tilted in favor of those that believe. However, I only point to the article jesus and possible ex with a boy as yet more evidence the church would rather not discuss and would surly do their best to hide. the church spent lots of time hunting down documents that didn’t agree with them and destroying them.
I personally believe Jesus Christ was bi-sexual like many in those times. I believe he was married and had a child as well…maybe more. But just like christians, I can’t prove any of my claims and can only point to evidence that would make us believe it true. some say there is not real historical evidence for jesus. we should all decide for ourselves and we should all surly look at our own search for the facts and not just links provided by pro-religious types.
i knew a guy in school that became a nazi and at the same time found jesus…wow. I guess this is part of the belief system for this group. anyway, he too sent me all kinds of links “proving” his ideas and how “great” hitler was and how whites were the chosen race and blah..blah..blah.
peace and make sure you do a search on morton and the secret gospel of mark. read it and decide for yourself. i personally do not care what anyone believes as i personally feel jesus is just another man.
however, i also believe that it is not a sin to have sex, even if you are not married, or if you are married and want to practice sex with other partners (along as your spouse agrees), or if you want to have sex with the same gender. Nothing wrong with it. Although I do not practice any of them i would never be a person to tell them they cannot express their love just like we all have a right to express our love. religious types seem to have some problems with sex.
however, as i was growing up. 99 percent of my friends were “christians” and each and every one of them were having sex as teens out of wedlock, some had kids. all the kids that were not friends but were in church were having some kind of sex as a teen. each of them that i spoke to said they asked forgiveness and would never do it again. guess what? they did it again and it seems repeated several times. hypocrisy starts when we are kids…hard to break the habit.
January 8, 2009 at 6:14 am
We NOW ALSO DO know that YOU make many claims for which they can not prove.
January 8, 2009 at 10:27 am
We all make claims but some can be backed up by volumes of evidence like evolution. Unlike God’s.