Here is the new Pope Mobile. Proving that the Pope has no faith in God to protect him. All he has to do is pray for protection. Apparently, he doesn’t believe God actually answers prayer or protects his most favorite guy on earth. Notice how the Pope and Vatican love the expensive cars like Mercedes Benz. All while child are dying of hunger and lack of clean water or medical care. Praise the Pope for having his priorities straight. Just like Jesus?
Stop giving money to the Pope and his proven child molesting establishment. They clearly care more for themselves than for the children of their God. Pathetic!
I hope the Pope remembers to give thanks to his God for all his nice cars, clothes, home, riches, FOOD and MEDICAL CARE while he ignores suffering and dying children. Not only does he ignore the children, he encourages parents of these starving children to have more children by telling them to not use protection during sex. This also increases the chances of HIV/AIDS infection and more suffering and children being born to a family where the parents either die or are less capable of taking care of the children. Hey Pope, it is a no brainer. Idiot!
How in the hell can ANYONE give money to the Catholic Church when they clearly care more about themselves and their riches more than children. When the Catholic church has a history of immorality against humanity and a proven record of sexual molestation of children while protecting those that rape children.
Really? You give money to such an establishment? If you do, you are clearly immoral.
Posted by Liam on January 14, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Hello,
I thought I’d just try ask you to consider some things. You mention that “the Pope and Vatican love expensive cars like Mercedes Benz. All while children are dying of hunger and lack of clean water or medical care”. Okay, surely that Catholic Church is doing what they can in Africa. However, if you’re going to blame the Vatican for any luxury they have (such as a Mercedes Benz) that some children don’t, then surely you yourself live in absolute poverty and starvation. Lest you blame a man for not taking action while you yourself have not. Yes though, the Pope has much more means at his disposal for helping people on a large scale then you or I do. Still though, if you say it is the Catholic Churches fault then you say any man who has the means at his disposal is at fault, that every church is at fault.
The other point that you make, that I beilieve you should take notice of leads to you’re article’s title “The Pope admits he has no faith in God”. Now, “Faith without actions is dead” (James 2:17 if I’m not mistaken). I often consider this thought in prayer “if I won’t listen to God’s voice now when he’s speaking to me quietly, what would make me listen if he revoked his heavn’s and I heard his voice bellow down on me? If he does not take his own means to protect himself (with bullet proof glass to say), by what means would he ask God to protect him. Now, you may be thinking that when you pray to God for protection than any bullets (for example) will not touch you, and they won’t! But as we love God, we are so moved to want to be at something before he has to ask us to do it. For example if Jesus wanted me to be missionary in…say, Afghanistan I would yell at myself ‘Why am I not spreading the Gospel already’? Love moves us to want to do God’s will before he has to ask us. Truly, God’s protection out ranks any bullet proof glass by infinite amounts. However, it is by the Pope’s desire to protect himslef as an action to be proactive in his prayers (of protection) that demonstarate his love for God. We can not love God if we don’t have faith in him. The Pope’s action’s prove that he loves God and has faith in him…not the other way aroun
Now your last point, you should also take notice of ( and if you’ve spent the time to read through what I’ve wrote thank you, because many of us have busy lives and I hope that God will bless you), you’re last point states that “[if] You give money to such an establishment? If you do you are clearly immoral.” Now you say that it is immoral to give money to he Catholic Church because the Church spends money on itself, while children are starving. We have discussed that the pope spends money on itself out of love for God, and that the Catholic Church is no more responsible for starting children in Africa then anyone who has any bit of luxury does. You do say though that the “Catholic Church has a history of immorality against humanity and proven record of sexual molestation of children while protecting those that rape them”. It is not the church has done such immoral things, the church is defined by the theology that has been sharpened of Centuries, by it’s tradition and by God’s will and Holy Spirit. The men who have done such things to children do not represent the Holy Catholic Church, they represent the human condition. Not the church. You also say that the Church protest such people that are the rapists. ” let he who has not sinned through the first stone” (John 8:7 if I’m not mistaken). If those men have repented, and chosen to sin not more who is any man to ‘throw the stone”, little a
One the Church.
With love, aI hope you understand that you’re article is not base on what actually is.
Mind you, I myself am not an Catholic, I’m an Anglican. An Anglican who has quite reformed views on theology.
I do hope you’ve taken the time to read this. Mat God Bless and keep you.
-Liam
Posted by truelogic on January 15, 2013 at 8:36 pm
There is a HUGE difference in me and the Pope. I do not pretend to believe in a God/Jesus or to follow what Jesus clearly stated about giving to the poor and not storying up things for future. I’m not going to bother to read the rest of your post if you can’t come up with a much better argument. In fact, although i am not religious, i have at a point in my life given most all my possessions to go and help others in another country that were without food and other needs in life.
the pope and the vatican have consistently told poor people that also have aids to not use protection. thus, contributing to the ignorance that allows more children to be born into poverty and at times spreading aids that results in more children being without parents. Pure ignorance.
Your type of arguments are ridiculous and until you can take that beam out of your eyes you will never see the truth. Your God, like all the other Gods are not real. Not remotely true. No one that claims any God as being real has EVER demonstrated their God is real. it is called a superstition…look it up.
Posted by Liam on January 15, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Starting from your last sentence, “No one that claims any God as being real has EVER demonstrated their God is real.” There have been many Christian throughout the ages that have proven that their God is real. I’d like to so something right now to demonstrate that my God (that is, the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit) is real…and I’ll demonstate it with logic. Lets start at the beginning, without God you would have to claim that contingency would of have to created itself. I am typing on my iPad right now, that is because I had breakfast and so have the strength to move my fingers. I can move my fingers because my mother gave birth to me. My mother gave birth to me because she was born…and so forth we go back all the movements that have proceeded from the begging. Atheisum claims that something (perhaps two atoms) ‘banged’. What created those atoms (or anything really) doesn’t exist. So by that logic, if contingency can create itself then with the point of a finger I can make gold appear. Which I obviously can’t. That is my poor attempt to explain the Prime Mover Argument, but I do encourage you to research it yourself. I believe it was the Greek phislopher Plato that created the argument, so hopefully we will both see that it is a valid argument. There have all been followers of The Lord that have demonstrated him most powerfully, Elija for example (a prophet) by his faith made fire rain down from the sky.
You also mentioned that belief in God is superstition and that I should look it up. Before I converted to Christianity from Athiesum I thought the same thing, and when I was an atheist I did do my fair share of researching. There is a book called the Reason for God by Timothy Keller, it gives many examples for a rational basis for the Christian God to exist, I encourage you to check it out!
In your second paragraph you mention that the Pope ‘in his ignorance’ has told people not to use protection. Protection wasn’t part of God’s plan for the family (or so I believe that is the Catholic Churches stance on the theological matter), the Pope in his action is not responsible then for spreading aids the Pope is repaonsible for this statement (in a sense), “if your not going to have children be abstinent.”
As for you’re top paragraph, I admire you for giving up everything you have and going off to work for the poor. But please under stand, I’m not trying to make you read my post…I’m trying to show some parts of your post that aren’t true.
Now, as Chrsitains we are aware of the fact that we should sell everything we have and give it to the poor. We are not perfect we are sinners, as are you as am I. I’m sure the Pope in his relatiship with God has a reason for living as he is.
Posted by Greg on February 11, 2013 at 4:39 pm
I was a Catholic, but after reading these arguments and after giving it a lot of thought, I have relinquished my faith and come to my senses and realize that it is true that religion is a lie that people follow to comfort themselves and give themselves a meaning in life when they can find none anywhere else.
So thank you for that!
Posted by joe on February 18, 2013 at 11:58 pm
Liam,
You can’t just use your lack of.knowledge as proof for your sky buddy. The great thing about science is that it actually looks for the real answer instead of saying god did it. That’s the easy (and wrong) way out.
Posted by Liam on March 24, 2013 at 10:28 am
To Joe,
By what lack of knowledge are you labling me with? If you are refering to me suggesting that people go and look up the prime mover argument, rather than listen to me; as an example of my lack of knowledge. I was simply trying to keep my comment shorter then it possibly could be. But truly I was not giving that example soley to prove the existence of the Divine, I was also giving it to say that there is not only faith in the Chrsitian Church. But the parts of us in undersatnding that makes conatct with God, so that he becomes an object of our knowledge, are fully met and filled. All I can do is point to the rationality and reason, and faith, that is in Christianity.
In regardes to your last sentecne Joe, I must say that for life to come from nothing as sceince states (That life expanded from a single point in space, from which there was indeed previously nothing) is an easy way out for how to conclue the origins of life. So, in your own eyes you must acknowledge that you yourself are in a state of conclusion regarding the existence of life that is easy, and impossible (as nothing cannot turn itself into something); and therefore wrong.
Kind Regardes,
Liam
Posted by truelogic on March 24, 2013 at 3:53 pm
and the buddhist or the muslim or the person that follow krishna can point to the “rationality and reason, and faith”that is their religion.
Posted by Liam on March 24, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Well actually they can’t do that, as the whole base to there religon is a lie.
In comparison to the term ‘religion’ Christianity is no such a thing. For while all other religons are a teaching or a practice, Christianity is a man. That man, of course is, the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ.
So in regardes to reason in science (and this also applies to Joe’s comment) it can be put that the concept of science, and science itself, is to study contingent things. God is un-contingent. So, to ask Science to prove God’s existence is a very poor request to ask of it, as it is like asking someone who’s only ability is in music to paint you a masterpiece of art. Now it can be done, it is just that that ‘masterpiece of art’ (if you’ll stay with me in my analogy) is not recognized by the musicians friends as it is so beneath there standard of what they expect of him. Such is the same with Science.
Posted by truelogic on March 25, 2013 at 4:53 pm
again, making claims you can’t prove. why? because you can’t prove something so you make additional claims you can’t prove as if that explains everything. what a joke. we can apply your same claims to any of the gods and claim that therefore that god is real or some other superstition. what nonsense
Posted by Liam on March 26, 2013 at 7:32 pm
I made two claims in my last comment. The first being that not all religons are true, and that asking science to prove God’s existence is asking of it something it is not fully capable of (as God is distinct from what science studies). You said that I’m again making claims I can’t prove, “again, making claims you can’t prove.” Now, you have delcared yourself as someone who does not hold any religon as true. So, in regardes to my first point we both agree. So, my other claim is that science studies contingent things; and that something that is un-contingent will not be well reconzied by something that is not capable or reconzing it. These are my clamis, and you call them nonsense? Now, I knows I made another claim that is quite distinctive from the other two (which is why I didn’t include it in my first two) and that is that, Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God.
God’s concept is that he himself is good. I’m not asking you to accept God’s existence yet, I’m just acknowledging that God’s concept is that he himself is goodness. Becasue God’s concept is that he is goodness, his concept must be all things that it is better to be than not to be. That includes love, as it it better to be love than not love. God is Love, Therfore his own concept must be that he is Trinity. As for God to be love, he must be that of self giving love in himself. The Son loves that Father, and the Father loves the Son. The Son revolving around the Father glorifying him, and the Father revolves around the Son glorifying the Son. By God’s own concept he is Trinity, otherwise he is not love, and so he is not Good…and so not himself. But if we were not talking about God’s Concept as himself, then were not talking about God at all, but of course we are. Now, you know when two people are in love; you could say love is in the air? Well between the Father and the Son, there is so much that there proceeds a new person; the Holy Spirit. That is why God’s concept must be Trinity, and not ‘Twoity’. Mind you, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not 3 majeisties; but one Majesty!
The Concept of God, is that he is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ being the Son of God. My only claim that was under question, well, it has been rationalized.
Kind Regards,
Posted by Liam on March 26, 2013 at 7:46 pm
Now Truelogic,
I have a question for you; can you propose an argument, just a single argument which would require no other for its proof than the arguemnt itself alone, for the lack of God’s existence? All that is in the argument is such, that the very natural of the argument and nothing else, proves that lack of God’s existence?
I have such an argument for the Divine Trinity’s Exisitence, and will gladly share it after yours. Still though, if you cannot find such an argument I will still give you mine all the same.
Kindest of Regardes,
Liam
Posted by truelogic on March 27, 2013 at 6:10 pm
again, you can’t prove any of your claims about your god. just like no one that follow another god or superstition can prove their claims about their god/superstition.
Christians make claims all the time and dont’ back them up. I guess we should believe you and all the other religions when they make claims? what nonsense.
Posted by truelogic on March 27, 2013 at 6:12 pm
I don’t even know what you are asking. FACT, none of the people that claim to follow any of the Gods can prove their God is real. not a single shred of evidence in support of their specific God. The trinity is clearly made up and the church has basically admitted it it in the past. just as we all know mary was not a virgin. what nonsense.
Posted by Liam on March 29, 2013 at 7:28 am
What will it take then for you to acknowledge proof? What will it take for me to back up my claims in your eyes?
Now, as it is, how can you back up your claims? What I’m asking you to do is prove atheism in one argument. However, not an argument that goes something like: Christianity is false (which it isn’t), therefore atheism is the only answer. I want you to prove atheism without putting grounds for it on something, other than itself. Christianity doesn’t need anything other than itself, to prove that it is true. I’m asking you to do the same with atheism. Christians can prove there God is real; I will try to do such; if you try and do such with your own beliefs.
Also, I think that it’s important to declare atheism a belief.
I believe that God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) exist. Yet, I also know and sate (in my knowledge) that the Holy Trinity exists.
You believe God doesn’t exist, as well as state (in your knowledge) that God doesn’t exist.
The Trinity is not made up, that Church has never rejected that doctrine. Marry, did indeed give virgin birth. Those two things are true!
Now you ask me to give proof to my claims, and yet you give none yourself? Why?
Regards,
Liam
Posted by truelogic on March 29, 2013 at 9:39 am
What will it take for you to acknowledge proof of Buddha, Allah, Krishna or any other God? The onus of proof is on those that make the claim. You make a claim that your God is real. If you make a claim, you need to back it up. If you make an extraordinary claim you should be prepared to provide extraordinary evidence. Atheism isn’t the only answer and I am not an atheist. I am agnostic because I am honest. I honestly don’t know how all things came to be, just as you don’t know. I am just honest. I also do not claim there is any God and based on the complete and total lack of evidence for ANY of the Gods, it would be a 100 percent safe bet to assume none of the man made Gods are real. Could there be a God? Sure. Just as there could be a dream fairy.
I can PROMISE you that you can’t prove your God is real. Just as the Muslim and Buddhists and Hindu’s or others can NOT prove their God is real. Yet each of those that follow other Gods believe in their heart, completely, that their God is real. That is a fact. They believe just as completely as you believe in your God.
It may be important to you to claim Atheism is a belief because you need to claim it as such so you can use it as an argument to deflect the fact that you lack any evidence to demonstrate your God is remotely true.
Let me clear something up for you. I do not state that A God doesn’t exist. I state that YOUR God and all the other God’s claimed by humans throughout time DO NOT EXIST. You should realize that is a HUGE difference.
You claim the Trinity is real and the virgin birth is true and yet you AGAIN provide not a shred of evidence to back up that claim.
My proof of my claims that your God is not real, that the virgin birth is not true and that the trinity is not true is the TOTAL and COMPLETE lack, VOID, of evidence, facts, proof of your claims.
If i say i have a car that travels the speed of light and you said I didn’t. Which one of us is likely telling the truth? Simple concept, unless you are delusional. If I claim my car travels the speed of light, I MUST have evidence to prove it or I MUST expect people to call me a liar. Now, imagine your claim (which is similar to the claims of many that follow other Gods). A claim that is far more extraordinary than the claim of a car traveling the speed of light. Yet you provide NOTHING.
I am sure you are a good person and that you believe in your heart that your version of a God is real. However, if you look up the word delusion in a standard dictionary, you will notice it perfectly describes a person that would believe in supernatural beings.
Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder
I used to be like you and I used to believe in all the things you claim. Then I educated myself and I spent many years studying scripture along with using strong’s hebrew and greek reference/translations (standard and accepted by the religious community). I also studied early civilization with a focus on religious beliefs. The evidence against your God claims is strong based on the claims of other Gods and the FACTS of reality and rational argument.
I don’t know the reasons for your deciding to believe in a God but if i wanted to take a guess, I could build a list of reasons for why someone follows the Christian God or any other God. Along with many other reasons, it often correlates with the society you are born and or raised. Of course there are many other reasons but none of them are based on FACTS that prove your God is remotely valid.
Posted by truelogic on March 29, 2013 at 9:39 am
Peace to you
Posted by truelogic on March 29, 2013 at 9:48 am
I’ll write a bit more on trinity and the virgin birth but i’ve got to spend time with my son because he wants to blow bubbles with his bubble machine and then fly his quad copter….actually, he is not old enough to fly the quad copter without crashing it so I will actually be flying it for him.
later
Posted by Liam on March 29, 2013 at 1:06 pm
I’m so sorry, the assumption I made wasn’t right of you being an atheist; as you are indeed an agonistic.
My apologies.
Now then, I guess it’s down to business. Why would it take for me to believe in any of the god’s that are not that of Christianity? It would have to be the same way that I myself came from atheism to Christianity. That is by the Divine coming to me, before I came to him; by the Divine introducing himself to me. As I cannot come to him; it is he who introduces himself. Of course now, having the Christian world view I am able to see the world as it really is (and I will back up all my claims later in my post). I can see that all those false deities of other religions or what not that claim divine intervention, are quite false. For me to believe in another god, I would never. As every belief counter to Christinaity is fundamentally flaud (I will back this claim up later in my post).
So then, what’s the point of me having this discussion with you if it is not in my hands to give to you belief in God? Well, we all have knowledge of God, our creator (I will back these claims up) in these posts I’ve been trying to shine light on that knowledge; so that you may let God let your heart become willing to receive his love.
In your seventh paragraph I see what you mean. However, if I am to say that no you don’t have a car that can go the speed of light, I will still be able to give proof against it. Now, in the social context it is fine to say that, “No you don’t have a car that goes the speed of light” because such a notion is considered ridiculous in society. But society change and so it is not appropriate to base my counter argument against your light speed car on society; as society is not an absolute. I must, if I am to rationally refute your claim use absolutes. Such as mathematical absolutes, and so in regards to your light speed car I would employ Einstein’s theory of relativity.
1+1=2, in that own mathematical statement is fact. With or without humans recognizing it, 1+1 will always equal 2. An absolute is something that needs no other justification for its existence than itself. (Those claims I know, are fundamentally true.)
Such is the same with God. The concept of the Christian God is that he is: Good, Just, Truth, Blessed (and really), “all things it is better to be than not to be”. If the concept of God is not these things then we are not talking about the God that the Christians acknowledge. (Anywhere in the Bible or in any Christian doctrine somehow we could pull out those claims on the God, which I myself and other Christians acknowledged.)
So just dealing with the true Christian concept of God being all things it is better to be than not to be. God is Trinity, as it is better to be Trinity than not to be Trinity. This is because it is better to be love, than not to be love. If God was not Trinity than within himself there would not be love. Between the Father and Son of Christian theology, is love that has always been, is always, and will be always. When two people are in love, you could say love is in the air. Between the Father and the Son is so much, that the Holy Spirit precedes from them. So if God is not Trinity he is not Love, and so he is not all things it is better to be than not to be; and so he is not himself (but after all we are talking about himself, God that is, so we cannot say that God is not himself; because just as anything is, it is its own, just as God is). So the concept of God is that he is Trinity, as well as Goodness (as it is better to be Good, than not to be Good), Love (as it is better to be Love than not to be Love), God is Truth, God is blessed and God holds all perfections (as it is better to hold all perfections than not to). So we have declared that if God is all things it is better to be than not to be, then he is that of Christian theology. As Christian theology acknowledges God as such. Now though, this is just a concept what good is it?
Well, as God is all things it is better to be than not to be. Then God exists, as it is better to exist than not to exist. God exists by his own merit; he needs no other justification then himself. God is an absolute that will be with or without humanities recognition.
The famed philosopher Immanuel Kant, countered this argument by saying existence isn’t a perfection. By saying that of all things it is better to be than not to, existence isn’t one of them. Only in life (in existence) though is there truth, only in life (in existence) is there goodness. Truth and goodness being things it is better to be than not to be. So, existence is included in all things it is better to be than not to be. For without existence are not good things, only a lack of them.
In regards to your justification of your agnosticism, “I also do not claim there is any God and based on the complete and total lack of evidence for ANY of the Gods, it would be a 100 percent safe bet to assume none of the man made Gods are real.”
Yet, the God of Christian theology exists by His own merit. So, the God that the Christian acknowledge does exist. Now if you say this is not the case, then we are straight away not talking about the God acknowledged by myself and all other Christians. So with God’s existence are all my claims backed up. Mary’s virgin birth, is possible as God is all powerful (and so can do anything); because he is all things it is better to be than not to be. God is Trinity, as it is better to be love than not to be love. The Christian world view recognizes the existence of God being all things it is better to be than not to be, as true. And so, is the only world view that is correct in full; because we recognize God.
It is better to be personal, than to be impersonal. God being love is Trinity, and so not impersonal but a personal (to himself) family. By God’s own merit he himself is personal. God is also transcendent; that is, being the greatest that there is, as it is better to be the greatest than to not be the greatest. If that is not the case then He is not all things it is better to be than not to be, and so he does not exist (as existence is something it is better to be than not to be). Such, is the reason why all other religions are false. It is because the most transcendent of their god (or gods) is not personal. Or rather, if their god (or gods) is personal it is not transcendent.The gods of the faiths, other than Christianity, are not all things it is better to be than not to be; and so do not exist.
In regards to your third paragraph, well, I didn’t need to validate atheism as a belief for an argument for my God’s existence did I.
In comment to your last paragraph, I am an atheist convert. God changed my heart, not society.
Best wishes to you,
Liam
Posted by truelogic on March 29, 2013 at 6:04 pm
Again, you still do not provide a single shred of evidence to demonstrate your God is any more real than any other. If your God is all things then he is also evil. He created evil, he instructs evil, if “evil happens in a city have I (god) not done it?”. “I (God) create evil”.
according to scripture you would be correct that I can not come to God. It is God that chooses me. I can not seek God. if i am to have faith it is a “gift” from god. If I do evil things, it is because god the potter made a vessel for honor and a vessel for dishonor. If bad things happen it is because god “created the wicked for the day of evil” and god “created the waster (satan) to destroy”.
scripture also makes it clear that god and the father are separate.
mary’s virgin birth is possible because the invisible guy you claim is real is also the guy you claim can do all things.
again, your statements of why you believe your god is real are not different than the claims i’ve heard of those that follow other gods. I was an agnostic when I was born as I didn’t know or believe anything. I started to learn and was taught about the christian god and I came to believe like most people in our society. then i educated myself and realized I your god and no others claimed by humans are real.
if your god were real, he would be the type of creature that NO moral person should follow or worship. he would be the reason for all children suffering from a slow death of lack of food or clean water. he would be the one that made the clay of wicked to do evil molestation to children because “yet all is of God” and “god operates all in all” and many more scriptures that backup my claims.
The claims you make about your God are made about those that follow other gods. even some other christians will make the exact same claim as you about your god to “prove” he is real and yet they also believe very differently on other important aspects that you would disagree with.
some people claim to talk to god and claim to know what god wants or that he has revealed himself to them. aren’t they special. while children suffer from sexual abuse? such a god would disgust me and should disgust anyone of moral character.
Posted by truelogic on March 29, 2013 at 6:16 pm
a person can always imagine a god has revealed himself to them when in reality, it didn’t happen. our brains are extremely complex and slight changes in chemicals or oxygen or introduction of other chemicals to our bodies can cause a number of believed events. look throughout history at all those making claims they truly, truly believed and they backed up with claims similar to what you make. they didn’t provide evidence or facts (look up the words). they provided their subjective belief.
I am far more objective than you on this issue. why? because I am not threatened with endless torture by fire from a supernatural being that apparently “loves” me like a father loves his children. I can say if my child denied me and hated me I would NEVER even imagine causing the slightest bit of harm to him. I would never promise to harm him and have never laid a finger on my son to cause any harm. All punishment is via rational discussion and reasoning follow by a consequence for his behavior that does not involve any physical or emotional harm.
The christian father has a history of evil, instructing evil and promising profoundly evil outcomes for someone committing a simple crime of not believing. that is enough to not believe in such a god. it is more of a reason to not worship or praise such a being. EVERY evil thing that has happened was designed by God (according to scripture) and God planned EVERYTHING according to his will from the beginning to “include the ending”. that means he has done good and he has done evil, profoundly evil things.
You can do NOTHING but for the father. Even Jesus can do NOTHING but for the father. Do you think you can do what jesus couldn’t.
shall you receive good from the hand of god and not evil?
Posted by Liam on April 6, 2013 at 4:02 pm
You misunderstand me, no Christian will say God is,” all things”. The God the Christians acknolwedge is not all things, rather, all things it is better to be than not to be. If we don’t accept this as the Christians concept of God than were simply not talking about the God myself and other Christians acknowledge. Because God is all things it is better to be than not to be, then He exists; as it is better to exist (to be) than not to exist. Only Christians can acknowledge in claim that God is all things it is better to be than not to be, no others faith can claim to ackowledge God as such; as the gods of all the other religons are not all things it is better to be than not to be. Islam for example claims that God is not Trinity, because of this they reject God being love. As in Trinity there has allways been love between the Father and the Son. If God is not all things it is better to be than not to be than he does not exist, Islam claims God is not love therefore they claim that God is not all things it is better to be than not to be (as it is better to be love, than not love).
In regardes to God creating evil. As God is good, as it is better to be good than not good; God did not create evil. God gave his creation free will, and when people have a choice half of them will chose either way. Some of God’s creation chose to turn away from him. There is evil in this world not because of God, but because of a lack of him; and that is because of our own (man’s) sinful rebellion.
Once again God did not make wicked clay. When scripture refers to us being ‘pots’ made by the potter; some for Glory other not as much. Scripture is talking about service not salvation.
It has been a point of schism in the Christian Church as to why there is evil in the world. As far as my knowledge goes every Church except the Calvanist ones, say that God does not will all things that have happend, total deprvaity, (as we are disscusing it). What God wills is goodness, and that we may come to him; by our own will. By our own will also thoughis there evil things, not God’s. By our choosing to sin is there evil, not God’s. For God does not will nay man to sin, but for all men to come into the life everlasting by His only Beogtten Son; Jesus Christ the (or as I would say; is) Lord
Posted by truelogic on April 6, 2013 at 5:56 pm
“I (God) Create EVIL” look it up.
Man can’t create evil if God “created all things”.
Man can not do evil if “God operates all in all”
Man can not do evil if “Yet ALL is of God”
Man can not do evil if it is God that determined “all things according to his will”.
I can post an endless number of scriptures that CLEARLY demonstrate that God not only created evil, but he does evil, created the most evil of all beings (the devil)….”I (God) create the waster to destroy”
If “all things” are “of him, through him and to him” then that doesn’t leave anything for men to create or do of man’s own will. everything was “before ordained” by God.
Holy crap, you don’t care what the bible tells us. You care only to make god in the image you want to believe.
what nonsense.
The bible is superstitious nonsense already and then people like you come along and reinvent your god according to your own belief…ignoring scripture unless it supports a point you agree with.
what a pathetic life…really.
If you don’t think the word evil in scripture truly means EVIL then you should look at your proper translations as it is the very same word used for evil in numerous scriptures to include the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
“Shall there be evil in a city and the lord has not done it?” do you understand that this scripture is telling us that if evil happens, you can be assured that god has done it. what about “shall you receive good at the hand of god and NOT EVIL?” Meaning you receive both good and evil from God.
do you know how many scriptures are in the bible that associate evil directly to god? apparently not.
Posted by truelogic on April 6, 2013 at 6:02 pm
problem is you don’t backup your claim. you say scripture means this when it says that. Why do you think there are over a thousand denominations/sects of the Christian religion alone? Everyone makes a claim that scripture means something else. Of course, you…like everyone that claims to know…thinks you are right. Of course you are…all mighty liam. Maybe you should start your own church and we can have yet another denomination that follows god according to yet another superstitious human that can’t backup his claims.
you just makes claim after claim after claim you can’t backup. why?
god is the potter and we are the clay. just like….”can a leopard change his spots” then so shall you decide not to sin? i can provide scripture after scripture that demonstrates that god means that he created us and molded us like clay to be exactly as we are. look through my blog and i’ve actually likely already done so.
like many christians, you disagree with your God. when he says he creates evil, you tell him he doesn’t. when he says he makes a vessel for honor and a vessel for dishonor, you say he doesn’t.
Prove God didn’t have more than just one son? Oh yeah, you can’t prove your God is remotely true or any less false than any other God. Therefore you can’t prove he had a son or that he is a he. Therefore all the claims about evil and the devil and hell and angels and other associated claims to your god…YOU CAN NOT BACKUP.
sad