Did Jesus Sacrifice His Life? I Think Not!

What did Jesus sacrifice?  Jesus “sacrificed”  a life in a human body that ages in a world of suffering, war, sickness and hate.  He “sacrificed” life on earth to go to heaven and live in complete health, power, and happiness for eternity.  Is that a sacrifice?  I think not.

In fact he didn’t decide to do anything.  He could do “NOTHING but for the father”.  How is it a sacrifice if he is forced to do it?  God, his father, planned it all from the beginning to happen exactly as it did.  How is that a sacrifice?

How is it a sacrifice on the part of his Father (1/3 party of the whole trinity thing)?  His Father knows all along that Jesus would come back to him, he controls it all according to his will, his pleasure and his desires.  His son was sent according to his Father’s will, his Father’s pleasure.  If it was according to God’s pleasure then that means God had a feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment in sending his son to earth to be tortured and killed.  How is that a sacrifice?  How is that not sick?

Instead of remaining on earth to be hated by many whom were out to harm him, living among humans that always wanted something from him, a world full of sinners, evil and those wanting to kill him, even torture him; He “sacrifices” to have eternal life of health, peace, no pain, no sadness, no worries, and complete power over all.  How in the hell is that a sacrifice?

Christian ignore the questions and attempt to tell me that they would be happy to explain the story of God/Jesus to me because they think I am misinformed.  If I am so misinformed then why is it they don’t address the questions?  Why is it they avoid the facts, evidence or logic and continue to reply with claims and excuses that are not supported by facts or evidence?

It seems to me was a coward and he got the good end of the deal while he left the rest of humans to die and suffer on earth.  War, sickness, hunger, famine, hate, intolerance….etc on earth for peace, love, health for eternity in heaven.  That is a simple choice, if you ask me.

Clearly, not a sacrifice on the part of Jesus or his Father.

So, he leaves the rest of humans back on earth to suffer…even children suffering for lack of food, water, medication, shelter and often die.  Many children molested or harmed in war.  Ever see an amputee healed by this Jesus?  No, you haven’t.  You won’t.  Jesus doesn’t seem to do anything outside of the stories about him.

28 responses to this post.

  1. Hmm. This post is obviously begging someone like myself to respond so as to start a debate that undoubtedly end in with anti-faith pro- reason triad spawned out of frustration toward the Political Christian Right. Which is too bad.

    I’m sorry you have been misinformed as to what the work of the Cross was. He did sacrifice Him Self, at the risk of proselytizing, He sacrificed Himself to free you from darkness so you could be who you were created to be.

    I’d be happy to tell you the right story of Christ if you legitimately wish to hear it.

    But this post seems to be more “bait” to Christians to comment. “Bait” which I took. But only because I think someone should tell you that Jesus is different than you think.

  2. Posted by Daily Speak on January 11, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    All you have to do to find out is die! Then you will know if it was a sacrifice or not.

  3. Posted by clockwatcher23 on January 11, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    I see what you mean. I’ve always thought it’s funny that we (as a species) continue to suffer, do evil things, and make our own situations worse and worse, globally, since Jesus died. The whole “dying and saving us” thing didn’t work out that well. I feel bad for all the people who were crucified during Jesus’s day (Jesus was only one of thousands of people crucified–it wasn’t a unique punishment), but I’m not sure it did much good.

  4. “TRUTH REQUIRES YOU GO BEYOND WHAT YOU BELIEVE” – as a Scientologist, I like your blog subhead.

  5. why do you have frustration with the political christian right? that is too bad.

    I am sorry that you have been misinformed as to what the work of the cross was. But you did state that he did it so I could be who I was “created to be”. according to scripture, I couldn’t be anything but what I am. according to scripture, it is not up to me to believe and it is not up to you to believe what you believe. you are forced by God to do exactly what you do.

    I would be happy to teach you what the bible actually states about god, you and me and all things. it seems you were misinformed like many others and that is just too bad. but honestly, you don’t really want to understand scripture, you just wish to believe what you are taught to believe. but hey, i understand that you have not choice. You are required to believe ….OR ELSE and isn’t that what it is all about? the fear has forced you to believe and it really has nothing to do with anything else.

    a child’s mind is brainwashed from birth…typically. what real choice do they have? ever watch Jesus Camp? Ever see a child raised by the KKK? yeah, they believe just like their parents taught them to believe and they are typically christian. funny how brainwashing works. people that are brainwashed claim to not be brainwashed to believe what they believe.

    this post is not a bait to anyone. it is a comment to discuss/debate. I don’t see that jesus ever sacrificed anything. he gave up his life on earth to have a much better life in heaven. not much of a sacrifice, is it? no. he gained EVERYTHING by dying on the cross (if he were real in the first place). He gave up a rather horrible outcome if he had stayed. basically, he was a sell out, a coward and a fraud based on what is claimed to have happened. additionally, he had NO CHOICE in the matter. His father “planned all things from the beginning”. did you not read the bible? nothing but for the will of God. God has “appointed a time for every matter and every event” . did you not read scripture or did you miss the fact that “yet ALL is of God” and “God operates all in all”. you know to operate means to “control the function”. like i stated, not much to do with a decision on the part of jesus. he couldn’t sacrifice anything, he could only do what the father told him. again, seems you don’t know much about scripture because jesus made it clear that he could do “NOTHING” but for the father. nothing is a rather strong word and it is rather all inclusive.

    but maybe you can make up some other excuses and claims to attempt to twist an explanation that makes perfect sense to those that lack any real logic to reason on the matter.

  6. once I die I will not find out. like the bible stated, dust to dust…when you die, you are dead. it wasn’t until much later that someone decided to add a magical after life of either happiness or pain.

    but maybe you have evidence to prove that we will find out when we die? maybe you have some evidence to demonstrate that your God is any more real than any other God? I won’t hold my breath.

  7. Yeah, I really don’t see the “sacrifice” when Jesus could do only what his father had “planned from the beginning”. It wasn’t up to him in the first place and if God planned it to happen and sent his son to die then I would guess the only thing that could happen is that he would die as planned. Or else God wouldn’t be all powerful, would he?

    Then we have to look at the fact that Jesus didn’t give up anything, no real sacrifice. He died so he can have a much better life with his father. Imagine, by dying he basically becomes God and has all power to do anything and will never die or suffer or be sick and will always be happy and in peace. What kind of sacrifice is that? I now of an endless number of people that would suffer now to gain eternal life and health but the problem is there aren’t really any individuals that actually believe they are going to have eternal life. That is why we don’t see Christians avoid medical treatment for a terminal sickness. They go to the hospital to be healed so they can live longer and they pray like hell that God will not take them. It is kind of ironic. one part of their minds tell them God isn[t real but just in case he is, they pray like hell to be healed instead of praying to die immediately and be with God.

    a real mental war is going on in the mind of these people and i feel sorry for them.

  8. thanks for the comment. scientology, now that is an interesting religion that I should read more about when I get a chance. I’ve watched a couple of programs on it and I’ve actually read L. Ron Hubbard’s book many years ago as a kid. My father had it but he never finished it. So I read it in between other books and activities. I can’t say I remember much about it to this day. Maybe I need to see if I can find it and skim through it to see if I recall the story.

    i put the blog subhead up because i think it is true. i’ve believed in the Christian God for many years as a child and up into young adulthood. i had to go beyond that belief to find out many truths I would have denied due to an inability to be objective. basically, lying to myself. I learned to no longer lie to myself and that helped me ensure I didn’t lie to others. once we can lie to ourselves then we are truly capable of any ‘immoral’ act towards others that could go beyond a simple lie.

    like most individuals that follow a religion, i looked for reasons to believe what I had stated I believed. we work to validate our own beliefs, even if we know they may be wrong. funny how that works.
    peace

  9. I read a little on your blog about your daughter. I have a new born son that is now 9 months old. Everyone asks me, “is he always that happy”? I always reply, yes…99 percent of the time and only cries a small amount if he is hungry or sleepy. Everyone told me to get ready to go without sleep for a long time. I’ve yet to lose any sleep after having my child and he only wakes for food which then puts him back to sleep within minutes.

    My child has also never been sick. no runny nose, no nothing. the worse to happen to him was a bump on the head from the little tumbles babies have when learning to walk and sit. as I write this, he is laughing with his mother. he brings more joy than I would have ever expected. I took him for a flu shot and he was supposed to get a booster and then we was supposed to get a shot for the n1h1. I never took him back for the booster and he has not had the n1h1. I prefer not to expose him to any chemicals in those shots that are harmful. I am not concerned with the vaccine itself but the mercury that is in them.

    anyway, i thought it was interesting that i too had a child with what seems to be a super immune system. started standing at just before 6 months, said da da at six months and walking around while holding onto things. i guess that is normal but i am proud of him. the only problem is that he is a mommy and daddy’s boy ..haha. i guess too much love from us….ok…no such thing as too much love.

  10. Albeit, the fundamentalist position of sacrifice can be disturbing, in a biblical sense, when excavated through the lens of Memphite theology of ancient Egypt, its allegorical veil is removed to disclose an ancient tradition of great mental value.

    The Christian crucifixion is not unique–what is unique about it is the literal interpretation of its mythology.

    The bible does speak on the dead letter doesn’t it?

    Good discussion piece.

  11. It is the stars that made the sacrifice :)

    youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFMmzKDonRY

  12. the literal interpretation is indeed unique. they even take the book of revelation as literal when the book itself states it is symbolic. I find that very interesting. the hell fire and second death is somehow literal when the entire book is full of symbolic meaning and chapter one, verse one states that it was “signified”…put into symbols. christian will call the bible the “living word”.

    i had a comment on this post from a scientologist and that had me thinking about gods and how people seems to follow a concept despite any evidence. I thought I would start looking at scientology again and attempt to understand their “god” as everything I have read in the past has been very vague about the religion. 1000′s of years after christ and we create a new god and apparently people spend millions on the religion. Hubbard was right, just create a religion and one can become rich and powerful..even part of history.

  13. Sorry, try this:

  14. a great experiment would be to create a god/religion and sale it over several years to gain followers and then come out and admit it was all made-up. record many of the events and people swearing to have an experience with the god and so forth. even being healed and then come out and say it was all bull shit. provide the documentation proving it was all madeup from the beginning and exposing the plan. that would be truly interesting, in my opinion

  15. that’s awesome….good find. now I am going to have to listen to more of what this man says. I guess there are always a never ending perspective in which to understand things.

    I have a software company in another country and I would bet many people I work with think I am a complete idiot with no understanding of anything..haha. they likely think i just got lucky and did’t plan anything of what I have done. I say this because when one of my team members or others ask me if I understand a concept or meaning of something I will typically say, “not completely, can you explain”. even if I feel I have a solid amount of knowledge on a matter, I like to get the other perspective and I typically learn how others see it. yeah, strange…but I learn a bit from all the other input and it often creates more question for me to ask.

    that is why I put up this post, clearly I would have a different perspective and i can’t say this is my exact perspective of the matter but it is one that most will not provide. i want religious types and others to comment in a way to stir thought. your video provided yet another perspective that i find interesting. thanks

  16. Posted by internet elias on January 12, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I truly see your point…….coming from your perspective window. But the view from my perspective window sees Jesus, the second person of the Trinity..the Son…who is the incarnation of the first person of the Trinity…the Father……willingly giving Himself (remember the Father and the Son are one) to the horrors of spiritual death (made His grave with the wicked…Jonah called it Hell…and Jesus said Jonah’s experience would be a sign of His own). The crucifixion…the scourgings, the spikes..affected the physical only. But the Sacrifice was in the literal giving of His LIFE…which was His inner person…His soul…His eternal part…His very LIFE…for us. In other words…He voluntarily went to Death Row (He wouldn’t even defend Himself because He came to die. The Father….generations earlier had supernaturally ‘fixed’ the Jews…Christ’s own people….so they could not recognize that He was the Messiah. Had they recognized Him….they would never have killed Him. And He came to DIE. His was purposed to give both body and soul into deep dark death of desolation. It wasn’t to be like when the righteous died. He was purposed to die the death of a vile sinner….with sins on Him ….none of which He committed. They were all committed by peoples past, present, and future…..including you and me. The complexity of God is so far beyond what our human minds can comprehend. But the Father has revealed the portions of Himself that’s relevant for our understanding. He has shown us His heart of Love. There is no greater act which can be performed than for the perfectly pure and innocent Son of God (God Himself) to purposely planning to give His own soul to Hell in our place. During the scourgins and crucifixion…he remained silent. He didn’t complain. He didn’t say ‘ouch.’ But when the time came for the Father to cause the ‘death’ to happen…He did so by removing his Holy presence from the soul of the Son. Scriptures record that it was daytime. But the light became dark. The sun withdrew its light. The earth began to shake. And from the cross..Jesus screamed, “My God, My God. Why hast thou forsaken me.” Truelogic…pure logic tells us that a pure and honest gift…given only as a gesture of love from one to another….should be accepted. Especially when that gift restores one’s soul from death to life. In the garden, before the crucifixion, Jesus prayer so fervently that he sweated drops of blood….resulting from dehydration of body fluids. Now that’s a lot of ‘sweating it.’ The reality is that He was not dreading having spikes put in His hands and feet. Crucifixion was the common death sentence…preceding our current lethal injections. Many had gone through the same thing. The two who died on either side of him went through the same thing. People DIE all the time. It is a very DO…able thing. But NOBODY has come to DIE…seeing the whole picture of what was within that DEATH. Christ could ‘see the whole court.’ He fully understood the black desolation He was about to penetrate when the Father withdrew His presence in order to allow the spiritual death of the Son (Who was also the Father). Only a person who has know deep depression…which is best described as ‘desolation’ can have only a glimpse of what that is like. Many have known that darkness so profoundly that they took their own lives to escape it. But Jesus knew something else. He knew death was no an escape for that horrow…but would be eternally continued. The death He died for us….was the Second Death spoken of in Revelations. It results in existing in a place where there is not even the hope …ever again…of anything of light, life, joy, hope, future, assurance, or even just feeling miserable. The place He went to was BEYOND anything the human can experience in this realm. It can only come as the eternal result reserved for the damned…the evil. Truelogic…..unlike me….many professing Christians fervently contend that Jesus died with the sinless soul He lived with. I have been called a blaspheme, more than once, for saying that His soul experienced spiritual death. But the scriptures clearly tell the truth of the events and purposes surrounding the mega event. I can understand, so clearly, why the Gospel is ridiculed by those outside of Christendom. The fault lies with us ‘Christians.’ Our double standards…..our deliberate lack of knowledge about what is ‘true’ concerning the gospel…and our traditions of ‘churchianity’ over becoming true followers of the precious and sacrificial Son of God….have done nothing but left people with distain for the most honest act EVER performed on behalf of MAN. Truelogic…don’t look at the so-called Christians. The real ones aren’t running around say ‘I’m a Christian. I hate evil. If you don’t work..you don’t eat…’ and so forth. The real ones are quietly doing it the right way. They have humble spirits. They serve those around them. They share. They love all people the same. The are not judgemental. They are more apt to judge themselves…but never others. They exist. They are not politically minded. They believe in the good of others. They are driven to help rather than hurt. They are GRATEFUL for gift of Grace. They do not abuse it. They know their own unworthiness. But they see worthiness in others. Truelogic….as you live your life…look around. Though these Christians are VERY rare….they are in the world. As scripture says…’you’ll know them by their works…they love their neighbors as themselves…truly….truly. They don’t argue, debate, protest. They give more than is asked.
    They desire the happiness of others before their own. Truelogic….wouldn’t we like more of that in the world. Look for it. You’ll see it all along. And you will recognize it when you see it. And concerning all the other ‘Christianity’ stuff…..don’t even waste your time coming against it. I accomplishes nothing but uncomfortable debate. Someone with the depth of intelligence you have…….can accomplish things much more worthwhile. Feel free to read and delete this comment….more ‘lengthy than intended’ comment.

  17. Just one question who’s bible are you reading sounds like ur sitting down studing with the devil and not the holy spirit or maybe your not studing at all just going off what u heard. God don’t make us do nothing and Jesus just like the rest of us had a choice he choose God’s Perfect will. God has perfect will and permissive will. His perfect will is for his will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. His permissive will permites us to do thing that may not be with in his perfect will because he wants us to Love him by choice and not force. jesus didn’t die to stop sin just died so we could be saved from death as result of our sins

  18. There is no Trinity and they are not one in any sense of the word. I can provide clear proof to this fact and have in the past. There may even be a post on the lie of the Trinity on my blog.
    Also, Jesus didn’t volunteer to give his life. He had NO choice. According to Scripture, God knows all in advance. God doesn’t just know what “will” happen in the future, He causes all that will happen in the future. God IS the future. God is the Alpha and the Omega — He IS the beginning; He IS the end, and nothing can be different from what God says MUST BE. “yet all is of God” and “God operates all in all”. Jesus could do “nothing but for the father.

    You may believe that Jesus volunteered but God doesn’t seem to agree with you: “For OF Him, and THROUGH Him, and TO Him, are all things: to Whom be glory for ever. Amen” (KJV Rom. 11:36).

    “…IN [Greek is ‘in’ not ‘by’] Him [Christ] is ALL CREATED, that in the heavens and that on the earth…” (Col. 1:16).

    “For OUT [the Greek is ‘out’ not ‘of’] of Him and THROUGH Him and FOR [Greek is ‘for’ not ‘to’] is ALL” (Rom. 11:36).

    Jesus didn’t decide ANYTHING. God did! It is very clear and specific in Scripture. Do you think anything can happen if God has not planned it, approved it ahead of time? Scripture states nothing can happen that God didn’t plan.

    “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, [truly, truly—what Jesus is about to say is the Gospel Truth!] I say unto you, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF…” (John 5:19).

    That isn’t a sacrifice, that is what he had to do according to God’s plan. His father. Remember, Trinity isn’t even a word in the bible. In the beginning, God planned for man to sin, he put the tree in the garden, he planned his Son to be born and killed. From man’s perspective I can understand why they think he sacrificed but if the bible is real and God and Jesus are real then it is clear that this was no sacrifice. Not even remotely.

    In fact, you and no others can do anything if God hasn’t planned it to happen. You can’t get sick, you can’t repent, you can’t have faith, you can’t seek god or choose God of your own free will. it is all of God. You can’t do evil unless God created you to do evil and decided to make you do evil.

    “…shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord has not done it?” (Amos 3:6).

    “The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL” (Prov. 16:4).

    “…for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work…” (The New Revised Standard Version).
    “For He has set a season for every event and for every deed…” (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).

    “…has not the Potter [God] the right… to make… one [vessel] for DISHONOR?” (Rom. 9:19-25).

    “O Lord, why have You MADE us TO ERR from your ways…” (Isa. 63:17).

    “…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS…” (Josh. 23:15).

    “What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL” (Job 2:10).

    “God is operating ALL in all” (I Cor. 12:6)

    “Yet ALL is of God” (II Cor. 5:18) You do realize that to operate means to “control the function”.

    “…being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works ALL THINGS after the counsel of His OWN WILL” (Eph. 1:11).

    “You have NOT CHOSEN ME, but I have CHOSEN YOU…” (John 15:16).

    “NO MAN CAN COME TO ME [by his own free will choice] except the Father which has sent me DRAW HIM [Greek: DRAG HIM] and I WILL raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44).

    “There is NONE that seeks after God” (Rom. 3:11b).

    “For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).

    That is just a small example to demonstrate you, like most “christians” have no understanding of the Christian’s gods word.

    “…and what have you that you did not RECEIVE….?” (I Cor. 4:7).

    “Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men…Full well you reject the commandments of God,[like:‘LOVE YOUR ENEMIES’] that you may keep your OWN TRADITION” (Mark 7:7 & 9)

    I have done far more in my life to help others than any Christian I have met. I gave up EVERYTHING, moved to another country and worked to help others for almost 6 years. the poor, with my life savings which I spent on them and a way to ensure future money was being provided. I then came back to America and started my life all over.

    Going against Christianity and religion in general isn’t a wast of time and doesn’t provide uncomfortable debate for me. I have actually been VERY successful in helping many college age and high school students to free themselves from the hateful teachings of religion and learn to ask the right questions. This has lead them to do far better things for humanity than they were doing as “christians”.

    I have not reason to delete your comments and appreciate all input from most all people. It is rare that I don’t allow a person to comment. however, there have been times when I do limit some individuals for good reason.

    it took me to leave christianity before I learned to give of my life for others. it took years away from the religion for me to learn true love and truth.

    we must also state that all that is stated with concern to jesus, god, heaven, hell is only a story as there isn’t a shred of evidence to support any of it as a fact or truth. just like any other religion.

    peace

  19. That is funny, the devil? I suppose you think he is real as well? Like your God, I would promise you have not a shred of evidence to demonstrate there is a devil, a god, a holy spirit or a heaven or hell. But I realize facts are not part of your myth.

    If you would care to debate Scripture, I am here and it is likely that I have a far better understanding of Scripture than you and I am able to provide the logic and scripture to support my comments.

    God doesn’t permit anything. Do you have scripture to support this “permissive will” or are you studying with the devil? Clearly not the holy spirit.

    Fact is that Jesus could do NOTHING but for the father. No free will involved in such a statement. No one can do anything that God hasn’t planned or approved or appointed.

    Let me help you with Scripture from the Christian Bible:

    “In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, of any human] Who WORKS ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL” (Eph. 1:11).).
    look at that…seems it was predestinated and God works it all and it is all according to his will. NOT jesus and not you.

    “For it is GOD which works IN you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).
    is that scripture from the Devil? what is it doing in the Christian Bible? The word of God….funny stuff.

    “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die … a time to kill, and a time to heal…” (Ecc. 3:1-3).
    You do understand the word “everything” don’t you? I didn’t find that “permissive will” can you provide that scripture? and please explain how it states god permits you or me or jesus to do anything.

    Give me a break. do you think your God is so stupid that he put the tree in the garden and didn’t know what would happen? Are you speaking to that devil again? I thought your God knew all things and planned all things from the beginning.

    “God is operating ALL in all” (I Cor. 12:6)

    “Yet ALL is of God” (II Cor. 5:18)

    Look up the word “operating” and notice what it states. Let me help you. it means to Control The Function. Free will? What a joke.

    Did you ever read the story of the disciples telling Jesus they wouldn’t deny him? apparently jesus told them they would deny him and they said they wouldn’t. jesus then told them again that they would deny him. they thought it was up to them and that they had free will. yeah..that permissive will god provided. But guess what, jesus told them again they would deny him. What happened? They Denied HIM. appears to me that it was all determined by God to happen exactly as planned.

    if you think you can do anything outside of the will of this God (according to his word) then you must be working with the devil.

    Would you like me to continue to demonstrate just how wrong you are and how exactly correct I am with respect to scripture?

    You would be better served to run along now and attempt to debate such matters with a child as you are out of your league here.

    peace

  20. Your doing great True, certainly if the jesus story was true, your opinion is very accurate, jesus died so he could go to a perfect , peaceful place for ever (so christians explain heaven in that manner). What a deal…..no sacrifice there.

  21. Posted by internet elias on January 13, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Truelogic….didn’t mean to indicate you wouldn’t post my comment because it offered another view. Only sincerely meant that I would not mind..at all..if you chose not to publish such an opposing comment. I don’t get offended at anything. The only place we differ is that ‘logic’ brings me to one conclusion….you to another. We are perfectly free to make whatever intellectual conclusions we desire. No debate there. I wish all good things for you and your family. So enjoyed hearing about your little son. Your little one is apparently strong and alert. My youngest daughter was tested, labeled, and placed within my state’s Talented and Gifted program. She was off the charts from the beginning with physical growth. A few years ago I saw the results of research done over a twenty-five year period which showed that children who later were identified as ‘intellectually gifted’ also showed physical growth ahead of the norms and met milestones earlier than those who were not later labeled. In the case of my daughter…that was the case. We had to start giving her babyfood at four weeks because, according to the doctor, the usual means of breast feeding and supplemental formulas were not keeping up with her growth rate. She became an award winning scholar athlete and was on scholarship at a major university for six years. She’s twenty-four now and uses her intelligence wisely, Like you, she’s compassionate and chooses to share her abilities with others. All the best to you and your faimily.

  22. I don’t really see another option if Scripture is true and the story of Christ is true. It isn’t like he had any choice since he can do “nothing but for the father” and he couldn’t do what God hadn’t already planned and if Christians think God didn’t already know this would happen then they are admitting their God isn’t all knowing and all powerful and that he didn’t plan all things from the beginning. They avoid scripture and provide their opinion so that it fits what they need to believe. I would like for one of them to prove otherwise but it doesn’t look like it is going to happen.

  23. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I am so busy at work that I haven’t had time to put together a clear reply. I didn’t mean to indicate that I wouldn’t post your comment and I actually did post your comment. I have no problem with other views and I especially look for views that oppose mine. What better way to learn and grow?

    I don’t typically get offended at anything other than those things which I consider evil towards life or that harms others. Yes, we do differ on logic and if you didn’t notice, i provided scriptures to backup much of what I stated and I can provide many more in support of my logic. You may need to look at some of my other comments on this post for more scriptures.

    Any intelligent and good person should wish good for anyone. We should wish good for even the evil people which would include that they will learn love and peace towards others.

    I do not know if my son is strong and or alert any more than other children but I am grateful that he appears to be healthy and very happy. He is truly aware that he is loved as he gets endless attention from me, my wife and grandma and thankfully has never been hurt in any way. It is good to hear the news about your daughter and I hope she continues the right path through life that you seem to have her on. I have seen many “gifted” kids and watched them reach an age where they did a complete turn around. This is most often due to the parents not properly preparing them for the changes of moving from childhood to young adulthood. It is sad to see. I hope I do not make that mistake and provide my son with every manner of honesty and ability to reason that which is put before him. My son came a month early but is back on track for growth yet his length is above normal. My wife and I are not very tall so I hope he will be lucky enough to be taller than me.

    It is interesting that you site a study about growth and intelligence or being gifted. I was below average growth and extremely sick as a child yet I excelled both academically and physically throughout High School. I wasn’t expected to live after being hit on two different occasions with a sickness that would strike me often due to low immune function. My mistake academically was that I believed in one of the many God’s out there and went to a bible college for two years and wasted that time and opportunity when I was invited to join a much more prestigious university.

    I don’t think the subject of Jesus Sacrificing his life is a matter of logic if one wants to accept the Bible as God’s word. If the Bible is God’s word, then it is clear that Jesus didn’t sacrifice anything. It is clear that none of us decide our outcome and that everything is “appointed a time to happen” and there is nothing that “we haven’t received” and or that wasn’t “planned from the beginning…..including the ending”. If the Bible is God’s word then nothing happens outside of what he has willed and he knew exactly what would happen from the beginning before it ever actually happens. No free will and therefore no true sacrifice on the part of Jesus or anyone. Then again, you have to look at what Jesus gained from dying. He gained EVERYTHING. Again, no logic would conclude that this is a sacrifice.

    peace

  24. The sacrifice was of God, He sacrificed his son Jesus for our sins so we wouldnt have to keep sacrificing animals to stay connected to God and to stay on his good side. After He gave his son Jesus we now no longer have to do the things the people did before Christ (John 3:16). God now look at us as if we where His son and we can just ask for forgiven if we sin. That shows how much God loves us. Also if you not willing to seek the truth you wont understand, because you first have to be foolish because you can be wise meaning as a natural man you cant understand God ways because the spirit of God isnt in you. Really dont matter what you think to be honest with you because you not GOD.

  25. Thanks for sharing your superstition with us. I feel it necessary that I should share another point of view that is just as valid. If you are not willing to seek allah then you will not understand.

    Also, notice how you didn’t prove or backup your claims about God. All you did is give your opinion of what you believe is the real version of God. Why is it you didn’t show your God is the one and only true version of God and the other Gods are not real? Why? Because you can’t. That is one of the clues we thinking humans use to identify that a claim is false. Now, if you provided one shred of evidence for your claims then we could discuss it more but I promise you that you will not provide a single proof, a fact that demonstrates your claims are true.

    Let provide some FACTS from scripture. You can not choose God, you can not seek God, you can not say Christ is lord, you can do NOTHING if God doesn’t want you to do it. It is sad that so many people have this delusion of a God and then put their own personal opinion out as the actual belief of their God.

    Like I stated, you are welcome to demonstrate your God is nothing more than a myth, a superstition or a delusion. But if you lookup the words myth, superstition and delusions you will notice they define your God and your mental sickness.

    Next time you come back here, please bring proof to backup all your claims. If you can’t, we will just consider you a other religious liar, a person fooled by primitive writings by primitive men in primitive times and used by ignorant humans to fool the even more ignorant and foolish of us.

    Ask your God to end human hunger…..i’ll check the news later to see if your god did it. I promise you that he will not. but go ahead, get all your little religious buddies and gather together and ask in his name to end world hunger. I promise you that your God will NOT end it or do anything.

    Maybe if you pray loud enough you can wake him from his slumber…..it seems he has never been awake….please, i beg you to prove me wrong.

  26. Posted by ZAROVE on June 30, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    First off, the whole Astrotheology claim, complete with how this story is found in Ancient Egypt, is Bogus. Please check out any number of other sites, its been thoroughly debunked. I have a hard tome seeing Atheists as Rational people who believe in Evidence and Logic as they insist when this idiotic theory keeps cropping up as fact.

    Speaking of which, the principle argument in this post is itself wrong. Why is it that Atheists like to use Modern Definitions of words when dealing in something Ancient? In fact, they do the same with Faith and the word Faith has a plethora of Modern usages still routinely employed, but the Modern Day Atheist defines Faith, all Faith, as Belief without evidence and derides it, and Religion for relying on it, even though Religious Faith is not really belief without Evidence.

    Neither is Sacrifice all about giving something up.

    Sacrifice is about Setting something apart to make the whole Sacred. That is, in fact, the root of the English word Sacrifice in Latin, and if you look up the origin of the word, you will find that it meant to set apart, to make Holy or Pure.

    The Hebraic concept that the Christan Concept is Derived from is the same. The Sacrifice of Jesus is like the Temple Sacrifices that were offered at the time. They weren’t Sacrifices because the people gave up a Sheep or Dove, they were Sacrifices because the People where made Holy or cleansed of Sin by the Act.

    Jesus was set apart from the world, and placed in a Holy position, and then used to Ritually purify the rest of Creation. It is in this sense that he was a Sacrifice.

    So this nonsense that he wasn’t really a Sacrifice because he came back form the Dead, or could only do the Will of his Father, is just not Valid.

    If you don’t believe me, look up the actual meanign of the word in the Ancient concept.

  27. Atheist don’t believe in invisible friends that are in battle with invisible enemies that are all around us. Atheist don’t imagine there is a superior being that says he loves us as a father while he threatens to torture us in fire for eternity if we don’t believe in him. that is called a father of love, mercy, compassion and morals?

    Faith in the Gods is based on no evidence. But if you can prove your god is the one and only true god and that he is more real than any other God, take your best shot. I promise you that you can’t and I promise you that your God is not real, no more real than the tooth fairy or Allah.

    Go ahead and provide your evidence. Christians say it all the time, and yet they never provide it. Look up the word evidence, look up the word fact, look up the word proof and superstition. Notice what they mean and then provide the evidence that your superstition is not a superstition and is actually real. Go ahead, I am waiting. I promise you that you can’t and you will likely avoid it by running away or making some excuse for why you can’t provide it.

    Jesus didn’t sacrifice anything, his father, according to the word of God, decided that he would do exactly what he did. Jesus didn’t have a choice. Remember, Jesus stated he could do NOTHING but for the father. Pretty simple to understand. Jesus sacrificed nothing, his father forced the circumstances. “yet all is of God” and “God operates all in all” to operate means to control the function. read your bible before you come to a blog and attempt to discuss religion or non-religion with a person that knows your God’s word better than you. You can do like many religious types and make your own definitions of words and if you can, feel free to provide the definition as it was intended in the old days and I would be glad to show you where you are wrong. Sacrifice would be to give up something for the sake of others. But notice, Jesus didn’t give up or “set aside” anything. He had NOT choice. He could “do NOTHING but for the father”. nice try but you failed.

    if you think about it, maybe we should take the jewish perspective of God and that fact that Jesus is not the son of God. are they right? prove they are not right. oh yeah, you can’t. you can’t even prove your god is remotely true, or you or someone would have done it by now. do you need another 2000 years?

    prove that Jesus was set apart from anything. prove it. if you can’t prove it it is just a claim and not based on facts. if it is not based on FACTS then it is a lie. look up the words for yourself. or do you want to define those words in your terms? you will need to in order to prove your god is remotely more true than any other God.

    The fact is, Jesus knew he would come back, he father planned it and he had no choice. If you would like to truly debate scripture, then i am here but I can promise you that I will wipe your ass all over this comment space.

    If someone else forces your, planned that you would do such and such, ad had the complete control over what you do “God operates all in all” then it is impossible to call it a sacrifice.

    we could even take the position that Jesus is God (which is another error in scripture) and therefore, God himself came down to die but he planed it all to happen anyway, he planned the sin, he planned the death of his son/him and whom is to say that Jesus even felt an ounce of pain. the son of God could have had no pain receptors to experience it. can you show he did…oh yeah…you can’t prove your god is any less real than any other God.

    Can you prove your God didn’t deceive you? His word makes it clear that he does deceive men, that he is the one that decides if you will be wicked or good and what time and date you will do this or that. but then again, that is according to his word.

    Let me guess, you will be too afraid to come back and provide your proofs, you will make excuses to avoid discussing it. Sacrifice, in the old test it meant to kill something and offer it to god. maybe the same concept applies to Jesus. I mean, god stated that he “NEVER” changes.

    peace

  28. Proverbs 25:2,

    “It is the glory of God to CONCEAL a thing: but the honour of kings is to SEARCH OUT a matter.”

    And so if we are to be kings, it is our honour to “search out” these things. You must want it more than anything in the world; more than anything in life, more than life itself! If you want life, you must SACRIFICE your life.

    What do you sacrifice? I mean if you believe Jesus died for you, suffered for you the the least you can do for him allowing you to have eternal life and avoid eternal torture is to sacrifice your life by doing as he stated. “do as I have done” you know, take care of the poor, those in need, sick…etc. You know, do as Jesus asked you to do, to sell your possessions and give to the poor, then follow him. when you are not busy blogging, I am sure you are sacrificing for this real god you speak of….right? What? You have too many worldly things to concern yourself with? I thought so.

    “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And BE NOT CONFORMED TO THIS WORLD: but be ye transformed by the RENEWING OF YOUR MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God” (Rom. 12:1).

    Why is it that religious types like you don’t follow the words of your god, the teachings, the examples? Well, I would say you don’t actually believe and in fact you would be the MANY that go down the path of destruction. Because there are millions of your types that call themselves Christians. There are few that actually follow the words of this God. VERY few indeed. Wow, it seems you are in for a punishment indeed…that is if the Christian version of hell fire and the second death is true. lucky for you it is all a myth.

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